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Inventor says Google is patenting work he put in the public domain

arstechnica.com

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Re: Inventor says Google is patenting work he put in the public domain

#21

Post by tdb7893 »

brisance wrote: post #16
mcny wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. Sounds like a win win scenario for Google. If the courts decide Google can't patent it, it probably means nobody else can either.

How is this a win-win scenario for Google? They’re attempting to do something that is strictly against the interest of the inventor and abusing the patent system in order to achieve a commerical advantage at the cost of the rest of humanity. This is totally evil in my view.

Their main goal is to not get sued. As long as no one else is granted the patent they probably won't be too unhappy.

As a large tech firm just not patenting anything doesn't seem practical given the current patent law even if you don't plan on suing people for them. Once you get a patent another company can't get a patent for the same thing (and if they do it's easy to invalidate) and also the more patents you have the less likely you are to be sued for patent infringement as you could always sue them back for your patents.

Re: Inventor says Google is patenting work he put in the public domain

#22

Post by protomyth »

mikece wrote: post #13
mikece wrote: post #5

What is the relative advantage of putting something into the public domain versus releasing under an Apache 2 or MIT license? The latter doesn’t restrict anyone’s use AND establishes a public record to refute what Google is trying to do. Additionally, communications by email could be via GitHub issues and open to all to see.

How about an “On the record” public domain dedication where dates, code, issues, wiki, etc are a matter of public record and establish legal grounds of prior art for countering patent issues like this?

I remember reading that IBM once did just that. I think they submitted something to the US Patent Office, but I cannot remember the reference. Might have been in the 360 days.

Re: Inventor says Google is patenting work he put in the public domain

#23

Post by brisance »

tdb7893 wrote: post #21
brisance wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this a win-win scenario for Google? They’re attempting to do something that is strictly against the interest of the inventor and abusing the patent system in order to achieve a commerical advantage at the cost of the rest of humanity. This is totally evil in my view.

Their main goal is to not get sued. As long as no one else is granted the patent they probably won't be too unhappy. As a large tech firm just not patenting anything doesn't seem practical given the current patent law even if you don't plan on suing people for them. Once you get a patent another company can't get a patent for the same thing (and if they do it's easy to invalidate) and also the more patents you have t…

So we are going to have to rely on the goodwill of Google not to sue others if they are awarded the patent? How about being a good corporate citizen like the others and not trying to patent it in the first place?

Re: Inventor says Google is patenting work he put in the public domain

#24

Post by amelius »

tdb7893 wrote: post #21
brisance wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this a win-win scenario for Google? They’re attempting to do something that is strictly against the interest of the inventor and abusing the patent system in order to achieve a commerical advantage at the cost of the rest of humanity. This is totally evil in my view.

Their main goal is to not get sued. As long as no one else is granted the patent they probably won't be too unhappy. As a large tech firm just not patenting anything doesn't seem practical given the current patent law even if you don't plan on suing people for them. Once you get a patent another company can't get a patent for the same thing (and if they do it's easy to invalidate) and also the more patents you have t…

> Their main goal is to not get sued.

So there's no practical way to demonstrate prior art without filing a patent?

Re: Inventor says Google is patenting work he put in the public domain

#25

Post by ocdtrekkie »

tdb7893 wrote: post #21
brisance wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this a win-win scenario for Google? They’re attempting to do something that is strictly against the interest of the inventor and abusing the patent system in order to achieve a commerical advantage at the cost of the rest of humanity. This is totally evil in my view.

Their main goal is to not get sued. As long as no one else is granted the patent they probably won't be too unhappy. As a large tech firm just not patenting anything doesn't seem practical given the current patent law even if you don't plan on suing people for them. Once you get a patent another company can't get a patent for the same thing (and if they do it's easy to invalidate) and also the more patents you have t…

It also provides a great "retirement plan" for your company's business model: When people stop buying your products you can hold your patents over the other tech companies.

Re: Inventor says Google is patenting work he put in the public domain

#26

Post by ocdtrekkie »

brisance wrote: post #23
tdb7893 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their main goal is to not get sued. As long as no one else is granted the patent they probably won't be too unhappy. As a large tech firm just not patenting anything doesn't seem practical given the current patent law even if you don't plan on suing people for them. Once you get a patent another company can't get a patent for the same thing (and if they do it's easy to invalidate) and also the more patents you have t…

So we are going to have to rely on the goodwill of Google not to sue others if they are awarded the patent? How about being a good corporate citizen like the others and not trying to patent it in the first place?

Corporations do not act with goodwill, and those that do are often not successful corporations for long, as others take advantage of them. Remember that every time you see a corporation seemingly acting selflessly, either you don't realize how it benefits them, or its just a public relations play. But corporations always act in self-interest.

Re: Inventor says Google is patenting work he put in the public domain

#27

Post by brisance »

phkahler wrote: post #19
brisance wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this a win-win scenario for Google? They’re attempting to do something that is strictly against the interest of the inventor and abusing the patent system in order to achieve a commerical advantage at the cost of the rest of humanity. This is totally evil in my view.

Google may simply want the patent to prevent someone like MPEG LA getting one. I suspect they really want it to prevent MPEG LA from using the technique in a codec though. Or perhaps Google employees are simply chasing the incentives to get patents.

If MPEG LA tries to patent it then they’d have to go through the same process. But they haven’t so why is Google trying to be a smartass and directly challenge the inventor, when it was him who gave them the idea in the first place? The most charitable thing to say is that they’re naïve but given how they’ve also considered working with the US government on drones to kill people I think they’ve really strayed from trying to “organize the world’s information”.

Re: Inventor says Google is patenting work he put in the public domain

#28

Post by contravariant »

seandougall wrote: post #8
akeck wrote: post #4

Isn’t it already published then?

Yup. And if I had a nickel for every time a patent was granted despite the existence of prior art...

I feel like many of these patents start with the idea 'if I had a nickel every time...'

Re: Inventor says Google is patenting work he put in the public domain

#29

Post by evrydayhustling »

ajb wrote: post #10
mikece wrote: post #5

What is the relative advantage of putting something into the public domain versus releasing under an Apache 2 or MIT license? The latter doesn’t restrict anyone’s use AND establishes a public record to refute what Google is trying to do. Additionally, communications by email could be via GitHub issues and open to all to see.

enedil is correct. To expand on that: MIT and Apache2 grant a licence to copyrightable expression. But the literal code is not what is patented, the idea is. Granting a license to the code doesn't automatically prevent someone else from patenting the idea. MIT doesn't say anything about patents. Apache2 additionally grants a licence to any patents which the author has which cover the work, and also tries to prevent s…

> the author should have patented the idea, then freely licensed it

This is the brutal truth of how crappy our current patent mechanisms are. The definition of what constitutes a patentable extension to practice of ideas that are well known or explicitly in the public domain is very weak. So, until something is patented and actively protected by bulldog lawyers, there is a risk of someone else trying to umbrella it in their own patent. Google's move can even be justified on defensive grounds that some other jerks could do the same. But the core problem is an arms race to the bottom of what trivial distinctions can be claimed.

Re: Inventor says Google is patenting work he put in the public domain

#30

Post by wtetzner »

ajb wrote: post #10
mikece wrote: post #5

What is the relative advantage of putting something into the public domain versus releasing under an Apache 2 or MIT license? The latter doesn’t restrict anyone’s use AND establishes a public record to refute what Google is trying to do. Additionally, communications by email could be via GitHub issues and open to all to see.

enedil is correct. To expand on that: MIT and Apache2 grant a licence to copyrightable expression. But the literal code is not what is patented, the idea is. Granting a license to the code doesn't automatically prevent someone else from patenting the idea. MIT doesn't say anything about patents. Apache2 additionally grants a licence to any patents which the author has which cover the work, and also tries to prevent s…

> Granting a license to the code doesn't automatically prevent someone else from patenting the idea.

But doesn't the fact that the code has already been released mean it's prior art?

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