Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors • Hacker News Board

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#21

Post by volgo » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 8:53 PM UTC

majos wrote: post #2

I wonder what percentage of these immigrants are ethnically east/southeast Asian, or even ethnically Japanese. I imagine a large portion of the Peruvian and Brazilian immigrants shown in the chart have Japanese ancestry (I believe Japanese ancestry makes immigration from those countries easier -- to the extent that one point there was a black market in being adopted as an adult by Japanese people -- and there is a la…

> But ethnicity, not just nationality, seems to matter a lot in Japan

The correct modern terminology for that is racism.

Something most people don't know a lot about, because as a culture Japanese tend to be very outwardly polite so a lot of racism is very subtle and can't be spotted by someone who's just visiting.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#22

Post by weiming » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 8:53 PM UTC

The article doesn't mention, but Japan also took steps to make immigration easier for skilled workers with the Highly-Skilled Foreign Professional visa [1] based on this point system [2]. Can even qualify for permanent residency in as little as one year if you score 80+ points.

[1] http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/newimmiact_3/en/

[2] http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/newimmiact_3/en/pdf/171110_leaflet...

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#23

Post by qop » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 9:00 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #14

coretx wrote: post #3

So it seems not even a nuke can kill Japanese fascism.

Ideological and nationalistic flamewar aren't allowed here. We ban accounts that do this, so please (re-)read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and don't do it again. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17274714 and marked it off-topic.

Unrelated, dang, how could someone get a hold of you? I have questions for you about your 'lumen' project.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#24

Post by fvdessen » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 9:01 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #20

ryanx435 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japanese is a race.

No, "Asian" is a race, "Japanese" is a nationality, which doesn't necessarily require one be Asian.

Aren't there specific ethnic groups indigenous to Japan, that one might refer to collectively as the 'Japanese' regardless of nationality ?

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#25

Post by dang » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 9:02 PM UTC

qop wrote: post #23

dang wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ideological and nationalistic flamewar aren't allowed here. We ban accounts that do this, so please (re-)read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and don't do it again. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17274714 and marked it off-topic.

Unrelated, dang, how could someone get a hold of you? I have questions for you about your 'lumen' project.

hn@ycombinator.com

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#26

Post by HillaryBriss » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 9:03 PM UTC

The system described here appears to be quite a bit more selective and limited than that found in the US. Permission to live and work in Japan is temporary in the vast majority of cases.

> ... discussions have centered around issues such as how many temporary workers should be allowed in and for how many years, rather than the longer-term question of whether Japan needs permanent immigration

> One of the biggest difficulties has to do with restrictions on allowing family members to accompany workers -- a move designed to prevent permanent immigration.

> The government's program requires trainees to stay with the same employer for three years ... Trainees are discouraged from going back to their country before finishing the three-year term or from having a child, and they cannot bring their spouse on the visa.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#27

Post by seanmcdirmid » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 9:04 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #20

ryanx435 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japanese is a race.

No, "Asian" is a race, "Japanese" is a nationality, which doesn't necessarily require one be Asian.

Ainu is a race, as are Yamato and Ryukyuan. Asian is a much bigger race, then we have nationalities. Sometimes Japanese is used to mean Yamato.

Also, see Han (ethnicity) and Chinese (nationality), where outside of China the latter is often used to mean the former.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#28

Post by weiming » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 9:06 PM UTC

volgo wrote: post #21

majos wrote: post #2

I wonder what percentage of these immigrants are ethnically east/southeast Asian, or even ethnically Japanese. I imagine a large portion of the Peruvian and Brazilian immigrants shown in the chart have Japanese ancestry (I believe Japanese ancestry makes immigration from those countries easier -- to the extent that one point there was a black market in being adopted as an adult by Japanese people -- and there is a la…

> But ethnicity, not just nationality, seems to matter a lot in Japan The correct modern terminology for that is racism. Something most people don't know a lot about, because as a culture Japanese tend to be very outwardly polite so a lot of racism is very subtle and can't be spotted by someone who's just visiting.

I find it funny that most of Western sentiment about Japan is very boolean: it's either "Japan is a mythical, enchanting land you must visit, great food and lovely people" or "Japan has a rapidly aging population, things are tough, and they are also racist." Why not accept that it's a huge country with 120M people and a multitude of experiences?

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#29

Post by stevenwoo » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 9:10 PM UTC

majos wrote: post #2

I wonder what percentage of these immigrants are ethnically east/southeast Asian, or even ethnically Japanese. I imagine a large portion of the Peruvian and Brazilian immigrants shown in the chart have Japanese ancestry (I believe Japanese ancestry makes immigration from those countries easier -- to the extent that one point there was a black market in being adopted as an adult by Japanese people -- and there is a la…

Permanent immigration is still closed off for the vast majority, except for IT workers and the articles quotes companies that hired mostly Chinese/Indian engineers for those positions. Every other career is limited to 5-10 years stay in Japan with restrictions on staying with an employer and difficulties in bringing a spouse and how much that spouse can work once there - it's much more of a temporary thing as described in the article versus paths available to immigrants to the USA. The employers describe the immigrants in entry level jobs in the same way one hears USA farmers describing migrant farmworkers in comparison to the native population here - harder working and more dependable than natives, the similarity is striking.

Re: Famous for its resistance to immigration, Japan opens its doors

#30

Post by ikeyany » Sat, Jun 09, 2018, 9:11 PM UTC

iguy wrote: post #18

ShabbosGoy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it is a lifelong stigmatization as well. You will never be one of them, no matter how hard you try.

You can never ever become Chinese either. Nor Indian. Nor Nigerian. Nor Russian. Never mind Kuwaiti. The exception here is the west, both in terminology used for people originating elsewhere, and in actual beliefs. [You, personally, may possibly have one exception on this list, roughly if you come from the edge of one of these, but never more.]

How so? The west is well-known for treating ethnic minorities as the "other". I don't think your opinion is very common among them.