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China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other

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21–30 of 273 posts

Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other

#21

Besides this being dystopian out of the western libertarian pov, i wonder what it actually does against crime? I imagine a crime free city would be an interesting human phenomenon without equal. The side effects of there not being any undetected and unprosecuted crime would be fascinating.

It won't be crime free. These types of authoritarian systems also tend to have deep corruption. In other words, there will be plenty of people "with the right connections" to evade the system.

Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other

#22
post #7
post #5

Whether you like China or not, Islamic fundamentalism is a huge problem to global peace today. Not just in the Middle East, Europe, but also parts of Southeast Asia (Malaysia, Philipphines) and China. The problem is people clinging to old time religious beliefs that women are inferior and must be veiled and that infidels are not worthy We've slowly dispelled Christian fervor (which used to be just as bad as Islamic f…

"But we at least must do something about it" Like oppress an entire region of people who aren't committing violence to get to the handful who are?

Gaza shows that handful can easily become most of the population if you let it get out of control.

The left's deep love and devotion to a religion that oppresses their other favoured groups - gays and women - astonishes me.

Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other

#23
post #7
post #5

Whether you like China or not, Islamic fundamentalism is a huge problem to global peace today. Not just in the Middle East, Europe, but also parts of Southeast Asia (Malaysia, Philipphines) and China. The problem is people clinging to old time religious beliefs that women are inferior and must be veiled and that infidels are not worthy We've slowly dispelled Christian fervor (which used to be just as bad as Islamic f…

"But we at least must do something about it" Like oppress an entire region of people who aren't committing violence to get to the handful who are?

As opposed to the western approach which lets religious fundamentalists profess their anti-semitism, anti-atheism and misoginy freely and violently?

Example: http://www.france24.com/en/20180511-saudi-financed-belgian-m...

And while freedom of expression is important, it is limited (especially in Germany). Racists expressions are a no-no pretty much everywhere.

Now Jews feel increasingly unsafe in the streets of Europe.

Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other

#24
> As a result, more and more private prisons are being built: the incarceration archipelago is adding islands even faster than the South China Sea. Adrian Zenz of the European School of Culture and Theology in Kortal, Germany, has looked at procurement contracts for 73 private prisons. He found their total cost to have been $108 million, almost all spent since April 2017. Records from Akto, a county near the border with Kyrgyzstan, say it spent 9.6% of its budget on law enforcement (including private prisons) in 2017. In 2016 spending on law enforcement in the province was five times what it had been in 2007. By the end of 2017 it was ten times that: $1.24 billion.

Change a few keywords and it sounds more like the current situation in the USA.

> CCA revenue hit a whopping $1.79 billion in 2015, up from the year before, while GEO revenue hit an even higher $1.84 billion, likewise an improvement over their previous year.[0]

[0]http://allthatsinteresting.com/private-prisons-us-stats

Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other

#25

Besides this being dystopian out of the western libertarian pov, i wonder what it actually does against crime? I imagine a crime free city would be an interesting human phenomenon without equal. The side effects of there not being any undetected and unprosecuted crime would be fascinating.

The purpose is not to control 'crime', per se, the purpose is to repress the population. Uighers in China are effectively under permanent military occupation; it would be like asking whether the U.S. occupation of Baghdad 'actually did against crime': totally orthogonal to the actual purpose of these policies.

Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other

#27
post #5

Whether you like China or not, Islamic fundamentalism is a huge problem to global peace today. Not just in the Middle East, Europe, but also parts of Southeast Asia (Malaysia, Philipphines) and China. The problem is people clinging to old time religious beliefs that women are inferior and must be veiled and that infidels are not worthy We've slowly dispelled Christian fervor (which used to be just as bad as Islamic f…

>The problem is people clinging to old time religious beliefs that women are inferior and must be veiled and that infidels are not worthy

Wow, such an uninformed generalized comment. Not something you would expect to see at hacker news.

Anyway, just because the West had problems with Christianity does not mean the East have the same problems with Islam. That is one of the reasons why Islam has more practicing followers than any other religion on earth.

Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other

#28
post #7
post #5

Whether you like China or not, Islamic fundamentalism is a huge problem to global peace today. Not just in the Middle East, Europe, but also parts of Southeast Asia (Malaysia, Philipphines) and China. The problem is people clinging to old time religious beliefs that women are inferior and must be veiled and that infidels are not worthy We've slowly dispelled Christian fervor (which used to be just as bad as Islamic f…

"But we at least must do something about it" Like oppress an entire region of people who aren't committing violence to get to the handful who are?

The presence of the "nonviolent" but complacent and complicit minority in these countries is what enables things to be the way they are. Maybe not everyone participates, but if you poll them on whether or not they support honor killings, oppression of women, etc. a large number will agree. This is not some fringe set of beliefs. Now personally I don't think we need to "do something about it", but the U.S. has actually gone out of it's way to create chaos in the Middle East and empower fundamentalism. We treat Saudi Arabia as an ally while they export poisonous propaganda, we help remove mostly secular dictators from power (who are generally opposed to Islamism and who keep the peace between ethnic groups), and chaos, terrorism, and explicitly Islamist governments with far more extreme policies is the result. Basically, if we really wanted to "do something about it" we'd just stop doing what we've been doing for decades. And yes, that includes not overthrowing Assad. The same people claiming he gassed his people are the same ones that said Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. I don't buy it.

Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other

#29
post #20
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Global peace is and always has been threatened by only one thing: inequality and greed. Religious fundamentalism may often be used as the ideological substrate for violence, but I think we've seen enough the last hundred years to know that any old ideology will do, without any spiritual element.

Where do you get this certainty from? What about population pressures? What about religous disagreements, what about nationalism? Old grudges? Why can't fundamental belief systems be part of the substrate of this equation that results in war. They change every other aspect of life and politics in many cases.

The leaders who encourage and exploit fundamentalist belief do so not out of religious fervor, but out of their own search for power. There’s always something to exploit to sow division. If you sympathize with China here because you believe they are on your side against the bad religions then you are just playing into their game. They are exploiting your own biases against fundamentalist religion in order to gain political cover for their actions. Don’t fall for it.

Re: China has turned Xinjiang into a police state like no other

#30
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But we at least must do something about it" Like oppress an entire region of people who aren't committing violence to get to the handful who are?

As opposed to the western approach which lets religious fundamentalists profess their anti-semitism, anti-atheism and misoginy freely and violently? Example: http://www.france24.com/en/20180511-saudi-financed-belgian-m... And while freedom of expression is important, it is limited (especially in Germany). Racists expressions are a no-no pretty much everywhere. Now Jews feel increasingly unsafe in the streets of Europ…

Are you concerned those people might oppress others if they came to power...like say the article above?
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