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Ask HN: How would you invest money if you were 25 again?

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Re: Ask HN: How would you invest money if you were 25 again?

#21
post #5

Real Estate. Real Estate. Real Estate. Real Estate investment cycle is very long, 6 to 10 years, and very predictable. You are 25. There are plenty of time to catch a few cycles.

wow i wish i had the ability to downvote.

Look, OP asked for investment advice. I gave my honest answer and what had work for me. If you have constructive criticism, post them instead of whining about downvote.

All investments have up and down. Just because there's an overdue big downturn in real estate, it doesn't mean it isn't a viable investment vehicle. Actually your negative reaction to real estate represents the general public sentiment, which is a perfect contrarian indicator. It really points to now it's the time to look into it to invest.

OP is 25 and has just seen the big housing downturn, which is great for him, lessons learned on other people's expenses. He has the next couple years to learn about it and accumulate capital to get into the game. If he asked couple years ago, I would have advised against it.

Re: Ask HN: How would you invest money if you were 25 again?

#22
post #20
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure about the predictability aspect? How much money did you make during the last bubble (and its bursting)?

I don't want to reveal personal finance info, suffice to say I was very happy. Real estate cycle is very predictable. It takes a long time and lot of effort to go up and it has a long leading time before it drops, unlike stocks. Real estate is also more depending on real economic factors which are more trackable and less manipulated by market makers than stocks. For the last down turn, people had been screaming the h…

Thanks for coming back with something real. I wish you'd posted that expanded version first.

I also know, that a lot of people predicted in 2004 to 2006 that the housing market was overheated. But, you know, you always get bearish and bullish people at all times, and the market can stay irrational for longer than you can stay solvent.

I did not invest anyway at that time: I did not have any money, being barely out of school. However, I had some nice returns when I bought some index funds starting in March last year --- when everyone thought the world was going to end.

Re: Ask HN: How would you invest money if you were 25 again?

#24
post #22
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to reveal personal finance info, suffice to say I was very happy. Real estate cycle is very predictable. It takes a long time and lot of effort to go up and it has a long leading time before it drops, unlike stocks. Real estate is also more depending on real economic factors which are more trackable and less manipulated by market makers than stocks. For the last down turn, people had been screaming the h…

Thanks for coming back with something real. I wish you'd posted that expanded version first. I also know, that a lot of people predicted in 2004 to 2006 that the housing market was overheated. But, you know, you always get bearish and bullish people at all times, and the market can stay irrational for longer than you can stay solvent. I did not invest anyway at that time: I did not have any money, being barely out of…

Well, I only wanted to pique people's interest; investigating real estate cycle was left as an exercise for the readers. I didn't want to write long post if no one cares.

Re: Ask HN: How would you invest money if you were 25 again?

#25
post #24
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for coming back with something real. I wish you'd posted that expanded version first. I also know, that a lot of people predicted in 2004 to 2006 that the housing market was overheated. But, you know, you always get bearish and bullish people at all times, and the market can stay irrational for longer than you can stay solvent. I did not invest anyway at that time: I did not have any money, being barely out of…

Well, I only wanted to pique people's interest; investigating real estate cycle was left as an exercise for the readers. I didn't want to write long post if no one cares.

Unfortunately your short post came over as somewhat trollish.

Re: Ask HN: How would you invest money if you were 25 again?

#26
post #22
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to reveal personal finance info, suffice to say I was very happy. Real estate cycle is very predictable. It takes a long time and lot of effort to go up and it has a long leading time before it drops, unlike stocks. Real estate is also more depending on real economic factors which are more trackable and less manipulated by market makers than stocks. For the last down turn, people had been screaming the h…

Thanks for coming back with something real. I wish you'd posted that expanded version first. I also know, that a lot of people predicted in 2004 to 2006 that the housing market was overheated. But, you know, you always get bearish and bullish people at all times, and the market can stay irrational for longer than you can stay solvent. I did not invest anyway at that time: I did not have any money, being barely out of…

"Real Estate investment cycle is very long, 6 to 10 years, and very predictable. You are 25. There are plenty of time to catch a few cycles."

I was not going to downvote because of disagreement. It sounded like shilling with no reason to back it up.

I have no idea what you mean by predictable or how you have a timeline. You mentioned housing starts so I will assume you were specifically speaking to residential real estate. It sounds simple to say look at rent to income or housing starts for an indication of housing price trends but really if you dont know what you are doing dont bother.

You mentioned interest rates for example. You do realize that a conforming home loan is sub 4.5% right? Well, you might not know that for most parts of the country (prices behave differently in land constrained regions and or low population density) the biggest factor in predicting nominal home prices changes is the interest rate on a home loan. Home value and interest rates are inversely correlated just like most asset classes but a little more so since we have a social obligation to make it easier to own a home. Anyways, my point was if you think we are japan and will have 15+ years of low interest rates that might be ok to neutral for home prices. Keep in mind japanese housing prices countrywide have been falling since 1991. If interest rates happen to move upward anytime soon housing prices will be crushed. We have no room for interest rates to go downwards anymore. Also we have a ginormous shadow housing inventory that is being held by banks who have tattered balance sheets. There are a lot of homes that should be going through the foreclosure pipeline that are being held because a flooding of the market with empty homes would destroy the value of the mortgage obligations that are being held. Someday these will be sold however. It wont be pretty for the housing market or for the owners of the whole loans.

Ramblings. But my point was that nobody really has any idea whats going to happen in the future. The government has a plan of its own with its own agenda. The banks and servicers all are trying not to get crushed under an avalanche of bad assets and are hoping they can earn/appreciate their way out of it. Maybe underwater home owners in non-recourse states will wise up and walk away. There is some hoopla in the industry about the lack of ability to foreclose due to crappy title transfers (exchange of ownership of debt from one play to another) and this could effect the ability to lend since people are already nervous about unknown consequences for lending in this political environment. Houses are nice. You can live in them (and for a primary res I dont think pricing should really matter over 30 years although the math to be sure is somewhat complex). But nobody really has any idea where prices are going or to what magnitude. But maybe you know something I don't.

Oh, fyi there are case-shiller options and futures available on the CME. It avoids a lot of the bothersome carrying costs of actual ownership.

Re: Ask HN: How would you invest money if you were 25 again?

#27
post #12
post #6

Normally, stocks are the way to go, but we are not in normal times. The best place for you to put your money that fits your requirements is bullion. Gold, silver or platinum, or a spread of all three. Right now, were in a high inflation environment, with the interest rates being forced down below the inflation rate. This is very similar to the scenario that created the housing bubble, only there is no longer a mania…

> Right now, were in a high inflation environment [...] Have you checked inflation figures recently?

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: How would you invest money if you were 25 again?

#28
post #8
post #6

Normally, stocks are the way to go, but we are not in normal times. The best place for you to put your money that fits your requirements is bullion. Gold, silver or platinum, or a spread of all three. Right now, were in a high inflation environment, with the interest rates being forced down below the inflation rate. This is very similar to the scenario that created the housing bubble, only there is no longer a mania…

Don't buy Gold it's in the middle of a huge bubble right now.

Debatable. For gold to drop, world govts either need to destroy currency, raise interest rates, or somehow make other asset classes more attractive.

I guess the stock market is becoming more attractive, as mass layoffs have temporarily boosted earnings. That is not sustainable though. Anyway, it hasn't really hurt gold so far.

Re: Ask HN: How would you invest money if you were 25 again?

#29
post #23
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3 years ago http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/keygraphs/fig1.html

OK. In the Euro area you could not get such high rates on a savings account.

Actually, you could get very good rates, if your savings were in troubled Eastern EU country banks (denominated in Euros, and insured by the FIDC version of said country). Obviously, not as safe as Treasuries, but also much less riskier than say a random 3rd world bank.

Wonder, how are Euro saving account rates in Greece these days..

Re: Ask HN: How would you invest money if you were 25 again?

#30
post #23
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3 years ago http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/keygraphs/fig1.html

OK. In the Euro area you could not get such high rates on a savings account.

You could if you put your money in Icelandic banks ;)
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