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A Wikipedia editor's long-running campaign

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Re: A Wikipedia editor's long-running campaign

#21
The Wikipedia editing process is broken. Wiki-lawyering is used to shut down the collaborative editing process, even when not on political topics often by people who don't know much about the topic that they are editing.

I don't trust Wikipedia content and tend to examine the Talk pages (sometimes even the Talk page histories) on controversial articles.

Re: A Wikipedia editor's long-running campaign

#22
post #4
post #3

I'm confused as to why this is newsworthy? Are we operating on the assumption that the 303 more prolific wikipedians are somehow all without a personal ideology? If the rules he's using are being followed correctly, and if the information he is posting is well-sourced, then your only other course of action would be to petition to change wikipedia's rules.

I think one of the arguments is this isn’t an individual but a group or agency with an agenda and resources to bend Wikipedia to a specific narrative.

A group is made of individuals. They would normally have one account per person. Multiple accounts per person is more likely than multiple people per account.

Bending wikipedia has been going on for ages, not even counting the paid editing that you seem to presume. The famous example, where Jimmy Wales had to step in, was pedophiles putting a positive spin on their sort of activity. A much tamer example is feral cats; the article minimizes any harm (wildlife loss, contamination, etc.) due to the people obsessed with the subject matter.

Most controversial subjects on wikipedia get a positive spin. It's simply a matter of who is most obsessed with the subject matter.

Re: A Wikipedia editor's long-running campaign

#23

The Wikipedia editing process is broken. Wiki-lawyering is used to shut down the collaborative editing process, even when not on political topics often by people who don't know much about the topic that they are editing. I don't trust Wikipedia content and tend to examine the Talk pages (sometimes even the Talk page histories) on controversial articles.

Wikipedia is useful for looking up technical info that there is no conflict over. It is not a good source for diving into a top-level controversial topic as those articles are long and have many places for people to stump and push for their ideas. The more specific a topic (think, a specific author associated with an ideology vs. the page for the ideology) the better. I think I've just adopted these mental heuristics automatically due to this.

Re: A Wikipedia editor's long-running campaign

#25
post #10

This is extremely concerning. Phillip Cross was easily caught because he was running his mouth on twitter, and was blatantly making one-sided edits from his single account. Imagine if a country like Russia makes an orchestrated effort to achieve similar goals, using an army of fake-wikipedia-profiles. They could easily turn Wikipedia into a platform for disseminating propaganda. In fact, I'd be surprised if they have…

Just look at your news channels...

Re: A Wikipedia editor's long-running campaign

#26
post #5
post #3

I'm confused as to why this is newsworthy? Are we operating on the assumption that the 303 more prolific wikipedians are somehow all without a personal ideology? If the rules he's using are being followed correctly, and if the information he is posting is well-sourced, then your only other course of action would be to petition to change wikipedia's rules.

There's a clear conflict of interest which Wikipedia is refusing to act on.

I feel like we're missing the context here. Why is wikipedia ignoring it?

Re: A Wikipedia editor's long-running campaign

#27
post #3

I'm confused as to why this is newsworthy? Are we operating on the assumption that the 303 more prolific wikipedians are somehow all without a personal ideology? If the rules he's using are being followed correctly, and if the information he is posting is well-sourced, then your only other course of action would be to petition to change wikipedia's rules.

If the rules he's using are being followed correctly, and if the information he is posting is well-sourced, then your only other course of action would be to petition to change wikipedia's rules.

"Well-sourced" is not the only criterion. I could edit a page, citing credible sources, and still distort it by including implicit, one-sided interpretations of those sources results/contents.

Also, if the rules do not have, in short, "be objective", then yes, we should petition to change wikipedia's rules.

Re: A Wikipedia editor's long-running campaign

#29
My friends and I had a shameful game in uni where we competed to see who could make the most egregious edits to wikipedia without getting reverted.

What was surprising was just how easy it was. We started with minor edits in small articles, just adding our own name to some list of notable achievers.

Then, due to competition, we would add an entire paragraph that fabricated an event. Like adding ourself as a conquistador of some made-up novohispano population in some made-up location.

Imagine how compromised wikipedia must be by people with agendas more lofty than uni students passing some time.

Hell, just the other day I removed "See Also: Donald Trump" from one of the major fallacy articles. The history showed that the scathing political commentary was up there for over 8 months and nobody cared.

Re: A Wikipedia editor's long-running campaign

#30
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a clear conflict of interest which Wikipedia is refusing to act on.

I feel like we're missing the context here. Why is wikipedia ignoring it?

That's a mystery to me too. Initially when the complaints were made on Twitter (by some of Cross' targets), Jimmy Wales dismissed them, asking for diffs. Now that we've provided diffs and shown the scale of his efforts and the clear conflict of interest, we've heard nothing more. We're hoping the more exposure this story gets the more pressure it will put on them to act. But so far it's not looking hopeful. See how one editor was shut down when he tried to raise the issue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:KalHolmann
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