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Scribd Puts My Old Uploads Behind a Paywall and Goes Onto My Shitlist

blog.ericgoldman.org

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Re: Scribd Puts My Old Uploads Behind a Paywall and Goes Onto My Shitlist

#21

Post by _delirium »

acqq wrote: post #8
ilamont wrote: post #2

I have content hosted there too and value the "open access" spirit, but would also like to see Scribd develop a viable business model. An alternative is the service will close down and everything -- both free and archived -- will go away. Another question: Besides an archive paywall, what else could the company do to build revenue (such as professional services, print-on-demand, etc.)

> I have content hosted there too Can you please or anybody else explain me why you see any added value of scribd at all? I see it only as an annoyance. If I'd like to read a pdf I'd prefer to click on the link and read it, not to go to some suspicious site which demands from me to sign up there only to do what otherwise would be one single click. As far as I know the only "advantage" of the service was to make conte…

I don't use it myself, but reasons people I know have used it:

1. They don't have webspace and want to put a PDF somewhere online.

2. They do have webspace, but are worried, possibly unnecessarily, that it'll cost them too much money if they send out a link to a big PDF to a large-ish mailing list.

3. For Mac users, where PDFs don't load in a plugin in the browser by default, they want to be able to link to a PDF that opens in the browser instead of popping up an external viewer.

4. And, yes: They have a PDF that is at best gray-area which they want to distribute without hosting it themselves, like a scan of a book chapter for a reading group.

Re: Scribd Puts My Old Uploads Behind a Paywall and Goes Onto My Shitlist

#22

Post by ajscherer »

ulf wrote: post #3

Sometimes, when reading pieces like this, I think it is time that we as internet users reach a certain point in our understanding of entitlement. There are so many services we readily use, most free of charge, while some of them provide a huge service to us. Some even make us money. But if the service providers themselves try to validate their business by making money out of it in some way, we start bitching... I do…

I would flip that around on you: I think it is time that companies reach a point in their understanding of users' reaction to the bait & switch.

The value of your service to a user isn't going to increase simply due to the passage of time or growth of your site. If they wouldn't pay for it on day 1, the odds are they won't pay for it after 2 years of using the service. If, in the process of trying to monetize your service, you "hold hostage" a portion of the value that the user has contributed to your site, they are going to be pissed.

This has all happened many times now. I think companies trying this route in the first place will be easier to change than peoples' reaction to it.

Re: Scribd Puts My Old Uploads Behind a Paywall and Goes Onto My Shitlist

#23

Post by dataguy »

kingkilr wrote: post #18

I don't care if they want to establish a paywall, that's there perogative, what I don't like is taking my content, which I uploaded under the belief I'd be able to host it there at no cost to end users (persumably subsidised by ads) and then charging my readers for it. I post my content (mostly slides from talks and such) for readers, I'd probably even pay to put my content there, it's rather convenient.

The last part: Absolutely. They got it the wrong way. I mean - okay - they have the right to establish the paywall.

But they are scare off the wrong people: the readers. Why use a service to pay for reading something that the publishers WANT to give me for free? Not enough: Many publishers would pay for it, as it is convenient and absolutely user friendly.

This won't work. Well no, actually it will work - but not as a service that proclaims "show your work to the world for free".

Re: Scribd Puts My Old Uploads Behind a Paywall and Goes Onto My Shitlist

#24

Post by BrandonM »

storm wrote: post #7

I've never seen the appeal of Scribd, and I'm no fan of the direction they seem to be stumbling in, but it seems a bit unfair to dismiss invitations to join a user advisory board and/or come visit them as "not much of a response". Even if both are mere PR exercises, it's an improvement on the kind of content-free hand waving I'd expect from a company desperately seeking profitability.

Exactly. How can he call this "not much of a response?" As you pointed out, the message said, "I'd also like to extend an open invitation for you to come in and meet the team." To me, that sounds like a free trip to give direct user feedback and have a real chance to make a positive change.

Instead, it sounds like Mr. Goldman just wants to bitch. He feels like Scribd used him? Did he not use Scribd? At least Scribd provided value to him (as he indicated); whatever value he provided Scribd, he is now trying to destroy it with this blog post.

There was a submission on here last week: If you are not paying for it, you're not the customer; you're the product being sold. (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1684732).

I never use Scribd, and I'm not really concerned either way with how successful they are. But I'm starting to get really annoyed with everyone's sense of entitlement these days. Louis CK hit it on the nose with his remark, "How quickly the world owes him something he knew existed only ten seconds ago." (http://barefootmeg.multiply.com/video/item/56 - it's a great clip if you haven't seen it)

Re: Scribd Puts My Old Uploads Behind a Paywall and Goes Onto My Shitlist

#25

Post by saurik »

ulf wrote: post #3

Sometimes, when reading pieces like this, I think it is time that we as internet users reach a certain point in our understanding of entitlement. There are so many services we readily use, most free of charge, while some of them provide a huge service to us. Some even make us money. But if the service providers themselves try to validate their business by making money out of it in some way, we start bitching... I do…

The worst case outcome of this (which I think is useful to mention, but maybe it is obvious) is when another company manages to think through all of that and "succeeds": figuring out how to monetize their product in a way that actually seems like a fair value proposition to all parties if you think through this, but instead totally fails because there is some website offering the same service "for free". If users cared enough to think through the business models of the companies involved, they'd realize how doomed the second company's model is, where the best case scenario is that one day they log in and they've pulled a Scibd, and that they should probably not be willing to use a free service, but instead they just go with it, get angry when it either collapses or starts monetizing, and them glom on to whatever the next "for free" version is. :(

Re: Scribd Puts My Old Uploads Behind a Paywall and Goes Onto My Shitlist

#26

Post by ulf »

pdu wrote: post #17
ulf wrote: post #3

Sometimes, when reading pieces like this, I think it is time that we as internet users reach a certain point in our understanding of entitlement. There are so many services we readily use, most free of charge, while some of them provide a huge service to us. Some even make us money. But if the service providers themselves try to validate their business by making money out of it in some way, we start bitching... I do…

While I generally agree with your points, I don't think they are particularly apt to this article. The guy isn't saying Scribd owes him anything, he even states that he understands they never promised him a free service in perpetuity. But when you make a service available for free and take pride in that fact, harvest your users content, and then suddenly flip over to a paid service without even giving your users adeq…

I totally agree with you that it is understandable to feel cheated in this occasion. Changing the model without saying so clearly is just bad communication (see the posterous link fiasco). But nevertheless I feel that a company does not have to explicitly state the fact that they are somehow aspiring to make money with their product, that is a given. So as a user I cannot be too shocked when somecorp starts to make money.

Re: Scribd Puts My Old Uploads Behind a Paywall and Goes Onto My Shitlist

#27

Post by narkee »

_delirium wrote: post #21
acqq wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have content hosted there too Can you please or anybody else explain me why you see any added value of scribd at all? I see it only as an annoyance. If I'd like to read a pdf I'd prefer to click on the link and read it, not to go to some suspicious site which demands from me to sign up there only to do what otherwise would be one single click. As far as I know the only "advantage" of the service was to make conte…

I don't use it myself, but reasons people I know have used it: 1. They don't have webspace and want to put a PDF somewhere online. 2. They do have webspace, but are worried, possibly unnecessarily, that it'll cost them too much money if they send out a link to a big PDF to a large-ish mailing list. 3. For Mac users, where PDFs don't load in a plugin in the browser by default, they want to be able to link to a PDF tha…

>3. For Mac users, where PDFs don't load in a plugin in the browser by default, they want to be able to link to a PDF that opens in the browser instead of popping up an external viewer.

FYI, PDFs absolutely load in the browser by default.

Re: Scribd Puts My Old Uploads Behind a Paywall and Goes Onto My Shitlist

#28

Post by points »

ianbishop wrote: post #4

I can't actually believe that they would go the paywall route. It honestly seemed a few months ago when they added HTML5 support that they were going in a really great direction and now I will avoid them like the plague.

I think the whole HTML5 thing was a big PR exercise to improve the way they are seen. Possibly also a big play to get acquired - "We're doing cool stuff with fonts! Buy us!".

Fundamentally though, they're about locking away documents behind a pay wall. And personally, I don't see their value proposition at all.

Re: Scribd Puts My Old Uploads Behind a Paywall and Goes Onto My Shitlist

#29

Post by crystalis »

thaumaturgy wrote: post #9

I think there are a few takeaways here: * You have to charge from the very beginning. If you start a free service, and then try to establish a pay system afterward, your users will feel tricked and trapped and they will rebel loudly. Scribd seems to have been in a hurry to get adoption, so they made it free to host documents; as this guy said though, he much preferred hosting with Scribd over doing it manually on his…

It seems like Scribd would solve more problems if they let uploaders pay to give their readers free access. I'm not the Scribd user; the guy publishing with them is.

Re: Scribd Puts My Old Uploads Behind a Paywall and Goes Onto My Shitlist

#30

Post by rick888 »

ajscherer wrote: post #22
ulf wrote: post #3

Sometimes, when reading pieces like this, I think it is time that we as internet users reach a certain point in our understanding of entitlement. There are so many services we readily use, most free of charge, while some of them provide a huge service to us. Some even make us money. But if the service providers themselves try to validate their business by making money out of it in some way, we start bitching... I do…

I would flip that around on you: I think it is time that companies reach a point in their understanding of users' reaction to the bait & switch. The value of your service to a user isn't going to increase simply due to the passage of time or growth of your site. If they wouldn't pay for it on day 1, the odds are they won't pay for it after 2 years of using the service. If, in the process of trying to monetize your se…

"The value of your service to a user isn't going to increase simply due to the passage of time or growth of your site. "

Yes it will. If that user uses your service every day, over time, it will be more valuable to them. Most services also don't just stay the same over time. More features are added and bugs are fixed, which adds to the value.

"If they wouldn't pay for it on day 1, the odds are they won't pay for it after 2 years of using the service."

If you never gave them the option of paying in the first place, how do you know?

"I think companies trying this route in the first place will be easier to change than peoples' reaction to it."

The answer is to not have free services in the first place. Many companies have tried the freemium model and then realize that it can't scale (IE: the costs to support this free user base out weighs the benefits).

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