Live data from Hacker News

Manufacturer 'make worthless' users devices after some stolen from a warehouse

phasenoise.livejournal.com

21–30 of 70 posts

Re: Manufacturer 'make worthless' users devices after some stolen from a warehouse

#21

Sounds like a reasonable thing for any manufacturer to do if your supply pipeline is prone to large-scale theft and your goal is to deter further incidents. The best option obviously is to fix the pipeline, but that takes time and not always doable in practical terms. Caveat emptor. Buying from a 3rd party and presumably at a deep discount always carries a risk of goods being stolen. PS. FTDI case is of no relevance…

Yeah, the burden is on the buyer not to purchase stolen goods. The manufacturer is certainly under no obligation to support them. In many states even unknowing possession of stolen goods is a crime, so many of the "users" here are in fact getting off lightly.

> Yeah, the burden is on the buyer not to purchase stolen goods.

1 party has 100% of the information, 1 party has 0% of the information, and the burden is on the party with 0% information. That's absurd.

> The manufacturer is certainly under no obligation to support them.

Not support and bricking are two different things.

> In many states even unknowing possession of stolen goods is a crime

Generally the state has to prove the defendant took receipt of the items for an unlawful purpose. Ohio is an exception, but I'm not sure if there is another one.

> so many of the "users" here are in fact getting off lightly.

You use "many" incorrectly here: Very, very few are. Because very, very few jurisdictions make it a crime to unknowingly receive stolen property and even fewer would actually press charges even if allowed.

Your post is nonsense.

Re: Manufacturer 'make worthless' users devices after some stolen from a warehouse

#24
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the burden is on the buyer not to purchase stolen goods. The manufacturer is certainly under no obligation to support them. In many states even unknowing possession of stolen goods is a crime, so many of the "users" here are in fact getting off lightly.

> In many states even unknowing possession of stolen goods is a crime I've never heard of this. Source?

Possession of stolen goods[1] is a crime USA-wide, and in many other countries. The rationale behind is ability to prosecute fences[2] - people who act as intermediaries and a layer of security between thieves and end-users, providing the thieves with option for easy cash-out.

Edit: As a counter-point, at least in Poland, while obtaining stolen goods is an offense ("paserstwo"[3]), the buyer of any good or service that has a "legal defect" - including having been stolen, IIRC - has a valid legal case to demand recourse from the seller. The goods are nonetheless subject to forfeiture.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possession_of_stolen_goods

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fence_(criminal)

[3] https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paserstwo

Re: Manufacturer 'make worthless' users devices after some stolen from a warehouse

#25
People who receive stolen goods have always been kinda screwed over - it's been part of our laws forever. Even if one isn't charged with a crime, one will lose the goods, and likely never recover their money.

The reasons for this are obvious - to make it as hard as possible to sell stolen goods. The effects encourage the innocent purchasers to have some level of caution when looking at buying goods.

Re: Manufacturer 'make worthless' users devices after some stolen from a warehouse

#26
I can't bring myself to be bothered by this - and wouldn't be even if I were using these devices.

For crying out loud, equipment with unique recorded serial numbers was stolen, so the company is blocking the specific stolen devices. That makes perfect sense to me. Objecting to how they do it (bulking up software with a list of serials, requiring software to phone home, whatever) is fine and their customers have a legit basis to be unhappy if it's impacting their use, but people with the stolen devices? Those aren't SDRPlay's customers because SDRPlay hasn't been paid for those devices.

Quoting from the article: In a PR disaster the manufacturer gives "Because we can" as an explanation to make end user devices worthless.

I'll note that this complaint very carefully leaves out a key word: STOLEN. I'm not seeing the PR disaster except that it's going to seriously hurt their image in the community of people who steal stuff from warehouses. tiny violin plays sad music

If you've purchased one of these, as I said above you're not a customer of SDRPlay or one of its distributors because payment is part of a vendor-customer relationship. You're someone who bought "Bose" speakers out of the back of a white van in a parking lot. Get your money back from the seller - you may even be able to get the police report from SDRPlay if you need it for a chargeback - and tell SDRPlay where you bought it so they can try to track down the thieves.

Edit: reading the original SDRPlay forum posts, they ID the specific ebay sellers, note that this is the third time they've had things stolen like this and sold by the same accounts, and note that "We will NOT penalise innocent people so that assumption that this is our intent is frankly WRONG!!" Basically they're likely looking for anything like saved packaging, shipping return addresses, etc. to be turned over to the police. Also, this whole thing is about (in this case at least) a total of 39 devices. We're not talking about thousands of people affected.

SDRPlay: https://www.sdrplay.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3225

Re: Manufacturer 'make worthless' users devices after some stolen from a warehouse

#27

Sounds like a reasonable thing for any manufacturer to do if your supply pipeline is prone to large-scale theft and your goal is to deter further incidents. The best option obviously is to fix the pipeline, but that takes time and not always doable in practical terms. Caveat emptor. Buying from a 3rd party and presumably at a deep discount always carries a risk of goods being stolen. PS. FTDI case is of no relevance…

Im pretty sure Apple does the same for their device — they have to be activated by Apple after they have left the factory so that they can be used.

Can still harvest them for spare parts. A strong market Apple created by making OEM spare parts hard to buy.

At least until Apple totally shuts down DIY repairs by authenticating the LCD, MAC, keyboard etc. upon startup.

Re: Manufacturer 'make worthless' users devices after some stolen from a warehouse

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the burden is on the buyer not to purchase stolen goods. The manufacturer is certainly under no obligation to support them. In many states even unknowing possession of stolen goods is a crime, so many of the "users" here are in fact getting off lightly.

> Yeah, the burden is on the buyer not to purchase stolen goods. 1 party has 100% of the information, 1 party has 0% of the information, and the burden is on the party with 0% information. That's absurd. > The manufacturer is certainly under no obligation to support them. Not support and bricking are two different things. > In many states even unknowing possession of stolen goods is a crime Generally the state has to…

His post is mostly nonsense, but not entirely. First while the burden of proof is not necessarily on the purchaser, if you have in fact purchased stolen goods, you must still forfeit them to law enforcement. There are no jurisdictions that let you keep stolen goods. In most jurisdictions you then need to get restitution from whomever sold you the device, and they can obviously face charges.

The manufacturer can definitely brick, or do whatever they want. The devices are still their rightful property, this isn't a gray area, they were stolen, no one has rightful claim to them except the owner, who was the manufacturer.

Re: Manufacturer 'make worthless' users devices after some stolen from a warehouse

#29
Those who bought stolen devices should return them and ask for a refund from EBay. You are generally not allowed to resell stolen goods, although I am not sure if EBay is liable here.

> Back in October 2014, the FDTI manufacturer shipped a device driver that ... would make any operating system stop seeing the device by setting its USB product ID to 0 , basically killing the USB device.

Well, if that id can be set to 0, it can also be set back to original value, isn't it?

Re: Manufacturer 'make worthless' users devices after some stolen from a warehouse

#30
Wouldn’t it be pretty trivial to remove the blacklisting code?

It’s not like this is a cellphone sold to my mom. It’s an extremely specialist product aimed at a group of users with vast electronics and reverse engineering knowledge. Probably won’t be long before one of them reverse engineers the device and releases the code to ignore the blacklisting.

Anyone know the technical details of how the blacklisting works?

Post reply on HN