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ICOs are Cancer

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Re: ICOs are Cancer

#21
post #13

Cancer is a bad word for this for many reasons. Word choice aside, I agree many ICOs are scams, and in general I think it's not a great idea to give someone very large sums of money up front to build something, with very few strings attached. The immediate global liquidity of tokens is both good and bad. Having access to a lot of funding early on, especially with no accountability, even with most well-intended projec…

Thank you. ICO's fundamentally change the nature of global marketplace dynamics. Whether its stocks, bonds, tokens, or whatever other digital asset, it is now shown that these items can be traded by anyone, anywhere, and anytime.

This is a fundamental shift in how markets have traditionally worked. Accessible by few, siloed by regional boundaries.

This post comes off as another angry bitcoin maximalist, upset that blockchain isn't being used the way they want it to be used

Re: ICOs are Cancer

#22

Cancer is a terrible disease which many have to fight with, and likely die from. I had to fight it and luckily didn't die. ICOs are a scam. Learn the difference.

Are we forbidden from the metaphorical use of words that reflect on a reality that personally affected you or should we just abandon metaphors altogether.

Re: ICOs are Cancer

#23
Cancer sounds like a pretty fair description to me; a destructive mechanism that sucks up tons of resources while turning the tables on something we usually consider a good thing (growth). It's not literally a disease that kills people.

Leaving out all the blockchain dogma and speaking purely from a technical perspective, I do think ICOs are pretty interesting in that they allow low-tech people to spin up digital tokens that can be traded in a decentralized manner. Of course, this is of dubious utility which is why close to 100% of ICOs are scams, but it is pretty fascinating to think that the fundamental primitives that emerge from a piece of open source software are capable of facilitating billions of dollars worth of fraud.

Edit: to elaborate a little further, the use of the word "fraud" there is not meant as a cynical jab, I think it is an uncomfortable fact and an ethical indictment of blockchain software, but if we suspend those considerations for a moment, I think it is interesting to think about the fact that the fundamental "coin-like" behavior of the software actually works (for all its extraordinary costs) and is such a tangible and captivating concept that it has spawned what has essentially become a real-life cyber-punk religion. It's kinda cool that it even exists. It'd be like if a malevolent AI emerged from the internet bent on destroying humanity, it would actually be a really scary situation but I think the HN crowd could not help but be somewhat amazed that such a thing actually existed.

Re: ICOs are Cancer

#24
google defines cancer as "a practice or phenomenon perceived to be evil or destructive and hard to contain or eradicate." So we can get back on topic now

Re: ICOs are Cancer

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a metaphor. I personally think that "cancer" describes something that is deadly, awful, and spreads. Instead of saying those three things, or maybe more, it conveys the message to me more quickly.

It's a really poor metaphor, though. ICOs are stupid, but really easy to avoid (just don't put money into them). Certainly not "awful" in the way losing a loved one to an early, excruciating death is. They're not deadly and they don't "spread", at least not by any means remotely comparable to how cancer spreads. It's not like the author works with the metaphor, either. The word appears exactly one time on the page, i…

> ICOs are stupid, but really easy to avoid

The cancer analogy is relation to the financial markets as a whole. Once people make more and more money from ICOs, they reinvest and push aside other more legitimate/productive forms of making money until there's nothing but ICO activity - investors who didn't jump on get FOMO and add to the new tide.

Re: ICOs are Cancer

#26
The single greatest risk posed by ICOs is the disruption of traditional fundraising. I agree that many ICOs are scams / infeasible but “the genie is out of the bottle” and having a new option for funding a company is certainly a good thing. Not everyone can call up a VC and get a multi-million check easily, although I know people who can do that. ICOs make fundraising much more democratized and fair, and once we have better accountability many issues will be solved.

Re: ICOs are Cancer

#28
I see problems with a lot of the things this guy says.

> Access to liquidity for early investors. Would you buy stock in a company if the senior management was dumping that stock?

There are lots of cases where an early investor, or early employee, might want liquidity on their holdings. For example, there are many cases of employees being essentially "trapped" at their companies, waiting for an exit.

> Stock is effectively a claim on a company’s dividends and the governance ability to hire/fire management in search of better cashflows. Token holders waive all of their rights.

How many dividends have Facebook, Amazon, Apple, or Alphabet issued exactly? And how many people have common shareholders hired/fired?

> Fundamentally Incompatible with the Legal System [...] Unless courts decided to cede their power (don’t hold your breath!), they will always be able to override the blockchain through blunt means like seizure of bank accounts, physical property and/or arrest of principals involved.

There are lots of tokens where this is the case, and I have to agree that ICOs make no sense for those cases. However, if it's actually a decentralized tokensale (e.g. cryptocurrencies, all DAOs)

> Lack of Basic Investor Protections

I think that, for a lot of (especially early) crytpo people, this is viewed as a strength. While it's unsurprising that a professional investors is going to miss the rules and customs that favour capital over all, there's a pretty big movement of people who were frustrated watching banks devour billions of dollars of taxpayer money in the form of bailouts, who've seen private capital groups walking away with millions from failed investments, and who've seen earnings for capital outpace every other form of income for the past several decades.

> Bitcoin is the world’s first (and best!) censorship-resistant digital store of value, and has amazing potential to improve the world by helping individuals regain their financial sovereignty.

Gee, I wonder if the author owns any bitcoin lol

Re: ICOs are Cancer

#30
post #27
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cancer isn't transmittable either

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oncovirus

isn't that more like "a virus that's transmittable that causes cancer", not "cancer that's transmittable"?
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