Shaper Origin: Hand-Held CNC Machine • Hacker News Board

Re: Shaper Origin: Hand-Held CNC Machine

#21

Post by icegreentea2 » Sat, Apr 21, 2018, 4:58 PM UTC

philipov wrote: post #16

21 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to know way more about the fields so I defer, but I think there is a market for just cutting wood, plastic or soft metals like aluminum. A low cost machine obviously will have a bunch of limitations.

2400$ isn't exactly low-cost.

It's definitely not cheap, but its in the ball park for CNC wood routers (obviously you can find cheaper stuff, especially if second hand).

There's value to some hobby users in that it looks like you get to save on bench space. For some users that might be the difference between having and not having a CNC wood router.

Re: Shaper Origin: Hand-Held CNC Machine

#22

Post by derekja » Sat, Apr 21, 2018, 5:12 PM UTC

We got one for our makerspace and it is a very solid tool. Amazing for parquet.

Re: Shaper Origin: Hand-Held CNC Machine

#23

Post by matte_black » Sat, Apr 21, 2018, 5:13 PM UTC

icegreentea2 wrote: post #21

philipov wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2400$ isn't exactly low-cost.

It's definitely not cheap, but its in the ball park for CNC wood routers (obviously you can find cheaper stuff, especially if second hand). There's value to some hobby users in that it looks like you get to save on bench space. For some users that might be the difference between having and not having a CNC wood router.

Why wouldn’t a $1400 dollar shapeoko or x-carve be better than this?

Re: Shaper Origin: Hand-Held CNC Machine

#24

Post by opencl » Sat, Apr 21, 2018, 5:35 PM UTC

matte_black wrote: post #23

icegreentea2 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely not cheap, but its in the ball park for CNC wood routers (obviously you can find cheaper stuff, especially if second hand). There's value to some hobby users in that it looks like you get to save on bench space. For some users that might be the difference between having and not having a CNC wood router.

Why wouldn’t a $1400 dollar shapeoko or x-carve be better than this?

This doesn't take up an enormous amount of shop space, can be used on arbitrarily large workpieces, and probably requires far less calibration and maintenance work. I have a 2' x 2' CNC router and can easily think of usecases this would be better for. A 4' x 8' CNC router is sure as hell not going to be cheaper than this thing.

Re: Shaper Origin: Hand-Held CNC Machine

#25

Post by aaronblohowiak » Sat, Apr 21, 2018, 5:58 PM UTC

erric wrote: post #19

mikeash wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! Considering what it does, I’m not surprised, but it’s a bit rich for my blood.

Seems about on par with Festool options, and looks like they are partners.

At that price they are competing with options that you don’t have to babysit, which is a big advantage if you are commercial operator.

Re: Shaper Origin: Hand-Held CNC Machine

#26

Post by arghwhat » Sat, Apr 21, 2018, 6:00 PM UTC

MisterTea wrote: post #13

CNC is a misnomer. This is more like GPS for a router. Computer assisted machining would be more appropriate though that acronym would collide with CAM, computer aided manufacturing.

Computer-assisted would imply that the human is responsible for the milling, and the computer helps.

Here, the computer performs all milling and measurements, but rely on a human to move the machine to where the work needs to be completed, posting instructions on a screen to the human as to where to put the machine. This is simply to optimize machine size, as a full plate CNC mill is a pretty big beast.

TL;DR: This is a human-assisted CNC router.

Re: Shaper Origin: Hand-Held CNC Machine

#27

Post by arghwhat » Sat, Apr 21, 2018, 6:01 PM UTC

michaelt wrote: post #15

MisterTea wrote: post #13

CNC is a misnomer. This is more like GPS for a router. Computer assisted machining would be more appropriate though that acronym would collide with CAM, computer aided manufacturing.

It doesn't just show you the tool's position relative to the workpiece, it also has motors that correct the position of the cutting bit. Sounds pretty CNC to me.

And IIRC (saw this thing years ago), it quickly retracts the bit and tells you that you're an idiot if you move out of range.

Re: Shaper Origin: Hand-Held CNC Machine

#28

Post by tejtm » Sat, Apr 21, 2018, 6:52 PM UTC

markrages wrote: post #12

It's confusing to call this a "shaper," when it is not the machine tool. (A shaper is a kind of linear lathe.)

this battle was lost generations ago. Shapers were "mechanical apprentices" wielding chisels replaced by low speed specialized cutter horizontal milling machines (borrowed from circular saws from timber mills) replaced with high speed vertical milling machines with fewer smaller diameter cutters and fancy fixtures, replaced by CNC mills.

Somewhere in there, probably along with vertical mills, beefy router tables adopted the name "Shaper" as it was not being used enough by the mechanical apprentices to say so any more.

But I love watching the hypnotic motions of a metal shaper more than I will ever like even hearing a wood shaper, in another room ... while wearing earmuffs

Re: Shaper Origin: Hand-Held CNC Machine

#29

Post by TheRealPomax » Sat, Apr 21, 2018, 7:27 PM UTC

aaronblohowiak wrote: post #25

erric wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems about on par with Festool options, and looks like they are partners.

At that price they are competing with options that you don’t have to babysit, which is a big advantage if you are commercial operator.

Yeah, but they're also operating in the "maker space", where ten people all pitch in $250 and buy a tool for everyone else to use. That $2400 buys you a tool that everyone, including kids, can use, as opposed to a real CnC machine that requires someone to become an expert operator needing to babysit anyone else who has an idea that requires CnC work.

This tool has zero appeal to commercial operators. But it's _INCREDIBLE_ for people who just want to make shit at their community center/hacker space/woodworking group/etc.

Re: Shaper Origin: Hand-Held CNC Machine

#30

Post by TheRealPomax » Sat, Apr 21, 2018, 7:30 PM UTC

MisterTea wrote: post #13

CNC is a misnomer. This is more like GPS for a router. Computer assisted machining would be more appropriate though that acronym would collide with CAM, computer aided manufacturing.

It's still a numerically controlled fabrication tool, well within the definition of CnC. It's just a hardware implementation where the broad motor control is offloaded to the human operator, with fine adjustment kept in-tool.