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FDA permits marketing of AI-based device to detect diabetes-related eye problems

fda.gov

21–30 of 104 posts

Re: FDA permits marketing of AI-based device to detect diabetes-related eye problems

#21

I wonder what factors made this decision possible? I love the idea of automated diagnosis but the performance rates are 87% true positive and 90% true negative in the article. Seems a bit low. Maybe people aren't getting diagnosed at very high rates? That would be a reasonable justification for deployment with somewhat less than perfect accuracy. Anyone have any insight?

The status quo is screening at the eye doctor. This enables screening at primary care visits. People mostly go to primary care more often than the eye doctor.

The medical risk is that people will forgo other screening for 12 months when given a negative result. The cost of additional screening for false positives is the other big downside (this is all the machine does, recommend a specialist visit or to rescreen in a year).

Re: FDA permits marketing of AI-based device to detect diabetes-related eye problems

#22
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like they are using this to get a proper referral to a specialist rather than using this as sole diagnosis. The code itself is probably 15 lines using Tensorflow or other framework I'm guessing, but could be wrong.

If it is that simple I am wasting my time in my current job.

I got a book on TF last year and saw all the examples were fairly short and was impressed with the power. However it took me a good three months before I could reason about why reach line was there. It's pretty complex stuff that takes a while to even understand, let alone actually write.

Re: FDA permits marketing of AI-based device to detect diabetes-related eye problems

#23
post #6
post #2

Does the FDA conduct code reviews? And how do they guarantee that the code or the training data does not change over time without them knowing?

Seems like they are using this to get a proper referral to a specialist rather than using this as sole diagnosis. The code itself is probably 15 lines using Tensorflow or other framework I'm guessing, but could be wrong.

In that case, shouldn't the training data be open source? Seems like somebody got an unfair advantage here.

Re: FDA permits marketing of AI-based device to detect diabetes-related eye problems

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it is that simple I am wasting my time in my current job.

I got a book on TF last year and saw all the examples were fairly short and was impressed with the power. However it took me a good three months before I could reason about why reach line was there. It's pretty complex stuff that takes a while to even understand, let alone actually write.

After I wrote the above comment I remembered that just because there are few lines of code doesn't mean it's trivial to compose those actual lines.

Some of the most elegant code is terse, but it takes years of education, experience, and intelligence to be able to produce that logic.

Re: FDA permits marketing of AI-based device to detect diabetes-related eye problems

#25
post #15
post #5

The company is saying you don't need a specialist, but after bayes theorem (using 90%TN 87%TP and D(A)= 200,000 complication / 29,100,000 diabetes), the chance you have this condition after the machine says you do is 0.83%.

I think the number is closer to 6%. 90% of people are accurately detected as not having the disease, i.e. 10% FP rate. So ~3m people would be falsely diagnosed as having the complication, to 200k/3m have the disease. 10% isn't a great number, but it isn't clear from this coverage whether this complication is generally asymptomatic or not. If there are symptoms to go with it, the numbers may be far better.

Also keep in mind that if there are positives general practitioners would refer to a specialist anyways for treatment. These specialists would be more than equipped to detect false positives. Teleretina imaging is becoming more and more prevalent as well with eyePACS and Welch-Allyn having dedicated interpretation services, so patients wouldn't have to necessarily go somewhere for verification.

I'm more worried about the 87% accurately detected as having the disease, i.e. 13% of false negatives (FN). I don't know how many general practitioners would actually send a patient to a specialist if the device did not detect changes.

The retina seems well suited to AI approaches, though, so I'd be interested in what comes next from companies like this, DeepMind, and other researchers/organizations (look out for Lee et al over at the University of Washington)

Re: FDA permits marketing of AI-based device to detect diabetes-related eye problems

#26

Hmm...I wonder how many patients actually diagnose themselves using the Internet (or their relatives do so)? Source : personal experience.

Jerome K. Jerome identified the problem some people have with self-diagnosis - and the Internet only makes it worse.

http://three-men-excerpt.pen.io/

Re: FDA permits marketing of AI-based device to detect diabetes-related eye problems

#27
post #23
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like they are using this to get a proper referral to a specialist rather than using this as sole diagnosis. The code itself is probably 15 lines using Tensorflow or other framework I'm guessing, but could be wrong.

In that case, shouldn't the training data be open source? Seems like somebody got an unfair advantage here.

In that case, the training data is the product.

They intentionally built an unfair advantage so that they could sell it.

Re: FDA permits marketing of AI-based device to detect diabetes-related eye problems

#28
I think the title is fine, but a lot of the comments are applying what the software does to medicine in general.

What this software is used for is very specific, but also very useful in that it is a common medical problem. It is used only to help diagnose diabetic retinopathy (ie eye damage caused by diabetes).

This is AI Vision software used to analyze a photograph of someone's retina to detect damage. In essence it is much more like the programs that are used to analyze chest X rays to detect pneumonia that have been recently published. Where this is useful is that it can probably cut out a lot of human work in diagnosing retinopathy, however it is an incremental step. Even when I was a resident in a primary care clinic years ago the process was somewhat automated like this, with our medical assistants taking a photograph with a special machine, and then this photograph would be digitally sent to a specialist (I presume an opthalmologist but I could be wrong, maybe optometrists can be licensed to do this) for interpretation.

What this isn't, is diagnosing a patient based on taking a history and inputting examination findings and labs, etc... We are still quite a bit of a way from that but I'm sure people are working hard on that as well.

EDIT: In my opinion, where AI could really make a huge difference for my work as a hospitalist (a doctor that admits and rounds on hospital patients) is in voice recognition software, with eventual language processing to help me write notes faster. First, give me a program like dragon dictate but which I can use in the patient's room (obviously one would have to figure out the HIPAA compliance issues) that transcribes my voice and the patient or family member into a readable text file that I can review when I write their note.

Next step would be that same program can give me its attempt to summarize our interview into a reasonable note, which I can edit for accuracy. This would be in effect an AI scribe. A scribe, for those who don't know the medical jargon, is a hired person whose only job is to listen to a doctor interview a patient and help write medical notes, they are usually young pre-medical students. It's a relatively new position that became created as the burden of documenting in electronic medical records limited the amount of time providers could spend with patients. Very common in Emergency Medicine where high output is needed, sometimes also in primary care.

Next step, is you have a company with all this protected medical transcription data and eventual medical outcomes, and you use ML to find algorithms to try and tease out what variables ended up being the most useful for accurate diagnosis. Before that you could have the program prompt the doctor for questions that it thinks would be helpful, etc... Again, huge medico-legal barriers to this but there is a roadmap to becoming a billionaire in my opinion.

Re: FDA permits marketing of AI-based device to detect diabetes-related eye problems

#29
post #8
post #5

The company is saying you don't need a specialist, but after bayes theorem (using 90%TN 87%TP and D(A)= 200,000 complication / 29,100,000 diabetes), the chance you have this condition after the machine says you do is 0.83%.

Why are specialists immune to those same statistics?

They aren't. With some luck their errors do not correlate with the ones of the machine, that gives us the best of both worlds: cheap diagnosis for healthy people and precise diagnostics for unhealty ones.

Re: FDA permits marketing of AI-based device to detect diabetes-related eye problems

#30
post #2

Does the FDA conduct code reviews? And how do they guarantee that the code or the training data does not change over time without them knowing?

Generally, the FDA (or the government body responsible for certifying medical devices) does not conduct code reviews in the sense of looking at the code and trying to find bugs.

The way it works is: the manufacturer of a medical device assesses the harm that can be caused by a software malfunction, and assigns it a safety classification (class A, B or C). Class A is used when no injury is possible, and class C is used when death or serious injury is possible (e.g. a surgical robot). The manufacturer also provides a "failure modes and effect analysis" document that looks at everything that could go wrong, what is the likelihood of the failure happening and what is the effect on the patient.

Based on the safety classification, IEC 62304 requires different levels of rigour. For example, the standard only requires blackbox testing for class B software, whereas for class C software it requires whitebox tests as well.

The manufacturer also needs to come up with a software development plan that ensures that all of the requirements of the standard are met, and an "argument" (supported by test reports, process documentation, source control history, etc) that the software was developed according to the plan.

And that is what the FDA audits: they look at the development process of a given feature and they check that the plan was followed. I think they rarely delve into the details of the implementation and are generally just checking that the safety arguments are sound and supported by evidence.

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