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Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

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Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#21

Post by corysama »

sampl wrote: post #12

I highly recommend the book Mindfulness in Plain English if you're interested in meditation. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003XF1LKW/ It strips away a lot of the "woo woo" kooky stuff and clearly explains what meditation really "is". I just finished re-reading it, and must have highlighted every other sentence.

I’m no expert on meditation, but I read/listened to several teachers until I found a few that would explain it without the “woo woo”.

A conclusion I came to about how it is taught is that besides some teachers being brought up on woo woo, many seem hesitant to teach it in direct, clear terms because understanding what it is creates goals in your mind and goal-directed thinking is counterproductive to the process.

So, the teacher being vague and woo-woo works out great for many students. But, for me, and I expect many people here, it prevented me from even getting started. Now that I have what I think is an understanding of the goals, I’m happy to meditate with a limp rather than not at all.

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#23

Post by AlexCoventry »

corysama wrote: post #21
sampl wrote: post #12

I highly recommend the book Mindfulness in Plain English if you're interested in meditation. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003XF1LKW/ It strips away a lot of the "woo woo" kooky stuff and clearly explains what meditation really "is". I just finished re-reading it, and must have highlighted every other sentence.

I’m no expert on meditation, but I read/listened to several teachers until I found a few that would explain it without the “woo woo”. A conclusion I came to about how it is taught is that besides some teachers being brought up on woo woo, many seem hesitant to teach it in direct, clear terms because understanding what it is creates goals in your mind and goal-directed thinking is counterproductive to the process. So,…

> goal-directed thinking is counterproductive to the process

This may be a Western influence. Not exactly a corruption, but a tendency to emphasize the "goalless goal" aspects of spiritual practice, because they align with the German Romantic philosophical strains which underlie most of the "woo" between the Enlightenment and modern contact with Buddhism.

It's worth keeping in mind that the Buddha's seminal talk was about ending suffering. It's hard to get more goal-oriented than that. And while chasing after a goal is a mild form suffering in its own right, it's hardly the right place to start.

Thanissaro has a great book with an extended argument about this, surveying the German Romantic foundations of Western "woo" and their influence on Western teaching of Buddhism, Buddhist Romanticism.

> An in-depth study of the pervasive influence of early Romantic thought in shaping the way Buddhism is taught in the West, and of the practical consequences of following the Romantics rather than the Buddha in approaching the problem of suffering and stress.

https://www.dhammatalks.org/ebook_index.html#BuddhistRomanti...

It's based on a much shorter essay, "The Roots of Buddhist Romanticism"

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/roots...

> Many Westerners, when new to Buddhism, are struck by the uncanny familiarity of what seem to be its central concepts: interconnectedness, wholeness, ego-transcendence. But what they may not realize is that the concepts sound familiar because they are familiar. To a large extent, they come not from the Buddha's teachings but from the Dharma gate of Western psychology, through which the Buddha's words have been filtered. They draw less from the root sources of the Dharma than from their own hidden roots in Western culture: the thought of the German Romantics.

Another highly relevant essay of his for goal-related practice is "The Agendas of Mindfulness"

> ...as described in the Pali texts, meditation is a very pro-active process. It has an agenda and works actively to bring it about

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/agend...

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#24

Post by wodenokoto »

sorokod wrote: post #19
wodenokoto wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I expect to be in a similar vain is "Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion". While I enjoyed reading it and it helped me make sense of a lot of things related to meditation, mindfulness and spirituality in general, I can't say I felt every other sentence was highlight worthy. The chapter on spiritual frauds was however very enloghtening.

Could you briefly explain what spirituality without religion is? How is it different from psychology?

Its basically about why spiritual things are good for you, and how the feelings you experience during such spiritual things do not need religious / supernatural explanations.

It's different from psychology as it doesn't try to explain / cure things like child development, depression, bipolar disorders or most of the other multitude of subjects that psychology works with.

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#25

Post by skosch »

nabla9 wrote: post #6
0xFFC wrote: post #3

I am always curious about how much meditation can affect our brains. In pop science and pop culture, we see a lot of overestimation about meditation affects on our brains. But what is the scientific perspective on meditation?

As someone who has practiced over 19 years very intensively, my opinion is that pop science and culture overplays the effects of moderate meditation (say 30 min per day) in a short term and mostly misunderstand the effects of long term meditation. The starting assumption of a secular meditator (like me) usually is that we want to develop some abilities. You are you, just better. If you meditate a lot, or very long ti…

> Eventually you are going towards direction where you don't want to go ... this is the end of the road for many people.

It sounds like you're saying that moderate meditation is overrated, and more intense meditation is outright detrimental in the long term. That is surprising to me. Is this an inevitability? Did you experience this, and how did you push through it?

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#26

Post by AlexCoventry »

wodenokoto wrote: post #15
sampl wrote: post #12

I highly recommend the book Mindfulness in Plain English if you're interested in meditation. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003XF1LKW/ It strips away a lot of the "woo woo" kooky stuff and clearly explains what meditation really "is". I just finished re-reading it, and must have highlighted every other sentence.

What I expect to be in a similar vain is "Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion". While I enjoyed reading it and it helped me make sense of a lot of things related to meditation, mindfulness and spirituality in general, I can't say I felt every other sentence was highlight worthy. The chapter on spiritual frauds was however very enloghtening.

Gunaratana is much more practically oriented than Harris: Here's how you do it, here's what you might experience, here are some problems and potential approaches to them. It also steers clear of cynicism and hostility.

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#27

Post by TravelAndFood »

Cool quote from the beginning section "Computing Sidebar: LISP":

"The machine at the bottom of your consciousness is a strange loop. Having a look at this strange loop is a lot more fun than reading about it."

Awesome. Great style and expectation-setting in the intro portion. From my perspective as a programmer, occasional Vipassana-practicer, and not-speed-reader, and having read only the intro portions, this has piqued my interest enough to sink time into reading.

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#28

Post by fsloth »

sorokod wrote: post #19
wodenokoto wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I expect to be in a similar vain is "Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion". While I enjoyed reading it and it helped me make sense of a lot of things related to meditation, mindfulness and spirituality in general, I can't say I felt every other sentence was highlight worthy. The chapter on spiritual frauds was however very enloghtening.

Could you briefly explain what spirituality without religion is? How is it different from psychology?

Not OP but as an atheist for me spiritualism was made concrete when after a meditation session I intuitively knew and felt that myself and the world were the same. I watched at some familiar trees through my windows and felt I and them were the same and actually existed. This sensation brought me great joy and calmness. And then it passed, I was myself again, and the world was again separate from me.

This was some two decades ago. I've never felt anything like that after that, but the memory of the sensation is still very strong.

No drugs. Just the most basic 'lie-down-relaxed-and-watch-at-a-dot' exercise. And wham.

It was pretty cool. I was an adolescent back then and I had decided several years before that logically religion was total BS. Had I been religious I'm sure I would have interpreted my experience as being in direct communion with God. But, I interpreted it as a neurological response to my meditation - which did not make the experience any less spiritual.

The experience did not reveal anything new to me, but it made me feel the truth that we all are one and connected, philosophically speaking.

Feeling is something purely logical discourse seldom provides. This experience was pure feeling. Like, I intuitively feel my legs are part of me. I felt the whole world was part of me. Now, this is at the same time true - or - false. We are made of the same atoms and are interconnected through our actions and the laws of physics. At the same time, it's a bit silly to describe oneself extending beyond ones body. So, one can choose was I enlightened by a fundamental truth or was I just a bit silly after a brief session of neurohacking.

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#29

Post by thsowers »

> The only way one can learn the technique of Vipassana is to take a 10-day course

Is this really true? I agree that a large amount of people may not be able to learn the techniques outside of a retreat setting, but I think it comes down to the individual and is different for each person

Re: Vipassana for Hackers [pdf]

#30

Post by philfrasty »

sgentle wrote: post #16

This paper is a pretty comprehensive take on Vipassana, so in case anyone's looking for something a bit more general, I'd like to offer a complementary summary based on my own experiences. Vipassana is a 10-day silent meditation retreat. Silent in this case really means distraction-free, entertainment-free, or stimulation-free. Think of it as the diametric opposite of social news. No noise, no conversation, no instan…

"...when the sensations get too much we [can] turn them down..."

I can only speak for myself but a) realizing this and b) actually figuring out the real noise sources were a (first) breakthrough for me. Not too obvious to figure out when I think back some time.

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