Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns

#21

Post by saagarjha » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 5:07 PM UTC

pxeboot wrote: post #10

saagarjha wrote: post #3

> Facebook engineers are quitting or trying to transfer to Instagram or WhatsApp I find trying to transfer into another product hilarious: it seems to me that they just don't want to have the stigma of working for "Facebook, the product", without really solving the issues working for "Facebook, the company".

WhatsApp and Instagram seem to be much more respected than Facebook proper right now, so it kind of makes sense. I also haven't noticed a decline in usage of these apps among my friends, but posts on Facebook itself have really dried up.

> WhatsApp and Instagram seem to be much more respected than Facebook proper right now

Yes, that's my point. These people, in my head, are trying to minimize the damage done to their reputation, but without actually realizing that moving around inside Facebook doesn't really help. I seriously doubt that how Facebook, the product, is run is significantly different than how Instagram or WhatsApp is run. Anyone who just jumps around isn't trying to really address the root issue.

Re: Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns

#22

Post by saagarjha » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 5:08 PM UTC

FLUX-YOU wrote: post #17

ryanSrich wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Silicon Valley is turning on Facebook. Employees are realizing this and do not want a tarnished resume. If you actually believe this is for ethical reasons then you're not equipped for the world.

Working for FB itself during this controversy won't tarnish your resume anyway.

How sure are you about that?

Re: Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns

#23

Post by tinbad » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 5:10 PM UTC

leggomylibro wrote: post #7

This is sort of surprising information, from my view. The information about their business model and data practices which people seem to be so surprised by was/is common knowledge among people who work with these technology stacks. Going to work for Facebook seemed like it would have meant supporting and abetting those practices; they were very clear about what they were doing, and the roles were in no way ambiguous.…

Facebook is a huge organization and although to the outside world it's perceived as one, internally it's basically hundreds of separated teams and companies. So to your point, yes probably some are aware of all what's going on around the company, but there's probably an equal amount that are not. I work for a Fortune 50 company and I get much of the information about the company from the news, despite having a relatively senior level role.

Re: Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns

#24

Post by mipmap04 » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 5:13 PM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #22

FLUX-YOU wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working for FB itself during this controversy won't tarnish your resume anyway.

How sure are you about that?

Seems pretty unlikely that it would meaningfully stop engineers from finding work after Facebook. A lot of Arthur Andersen individuals were hired pretty easily after its dissolution following the Enron scandal.

Re: Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns

#25

Post by ascendantlogic » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 5:13 PM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #22

FLUX-YOU wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working for FB itself during this controversy won't tarnish your resume anyway.

How sure are you about that?

Because there are plenty of sociopaths in positions of power at companies all over the world that would probably gladly hire skilled coders that either have no moral compass or are fine with their moral compass spinning wildly while they cash their paychecks?

Re: Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns

#26

Post by fredliu » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 5:13 PM UTC

Facebook is indeed in a crisis, but I just got the feeling that the media is exaggerating anything that has the slightest negative bend to pour more fuel to the fire.

Re: Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns

#27

Post by starpilot » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 5:14 PM UTC

"Some... Many believe..."

We don't know if this is a cluster of concerned people, or a broad trend across the company. Given the vagueness, it's probably the former, because exaggerating the number lends to a more interesting narrative. Not much to see here, just a few people leaving FB.

Re: Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns

#28

Post by ThemalSpan » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 5:17 PM UTC

taurath wrote: post #5

I wonder how many new hires pass up Facebook because of ethical concerns. Whats scary is if even internally people are moving departments because of ethics, that basically filters so that the least ethical people are on the teams with the most ethical concerns. If there's a real net effect on their hiring, they'll have to increase salaries to lure people in, which will take in even more unethical people (of course, n…

I find this issue much more pressing in the defense industry. I (thankfully) have the freedom to choose where I work. I will never willingly work on weapon systems. There are those that do though. Engineers who design things to kill other people. What the actual fuck.

Re: Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns

#29

Post by FLUX-YOU » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 5:18 PM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #22

FLUX-YOU wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working for FB itself during this controversy won't tarnish your resume anyway.

How sure are you about that?

As sure as it's still a developer's market and FB controversy doesn't erase technological accomplishments of individuals. Those accomplishments are easily untied from the politics of the situation.

You may lose a small amount of jobs that would come your way, but you'd still likely have dozens of offers to choose from from companies that don't view you as 'tainted'.

Software engineering doesn't have the same ethical consequences and motivations as other fields (medicine, law, etc.). It doesn't make much sense to punish the engineers when you invent ethical standards after-the-fact.

Re: Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns

#30

Post by leggomylibro » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 5:18 PM UTC

idunno246 wrote: post #16

leggomylibro wrote: post #7

This is sort of surprising information, from my view. The information about their business model and data practices which people seem to be so surprised by was/is common knowledge among people who work with these technology stacks. Going to work for Facebook seemed like it would have meant supporting and abetting those practices; they were very clear about what they were doing, and the roles were in no way ambiguous.…

It’s also just one tweet. It’s an article based off a single sentence in the nytimes article. Maybe people are transferring, maybe this is a reason or an excuse, but the support in this article is pretty flimsy. having worked in Facebook games in 2012, I think some today forget how much worse for privacy Facebook used to be than it is today

Also good points - plus, it's not very compassionate to let a knee-jerk negative opinion color my view of other peoples' actions without having heard their opinions.