Our experience with Stripe Atlas (2017) • Hacker News Board

Re: Our experience with Stripe Atlas (2017)

#21

Post by schrijver » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 1:20 PM UTC

agopaul wrote: post #4

As a non-US citizen, opening a company in the US is not the hard part. The hard part is figuring out taxes and legal "configuration" in your own country, where you live. I'm not an expert, but I hear from accountants that you have to figure the thing out properly and you end up having an accountant for your company abroad and one for yourself. It might end up being too much expensive if it's for a bootstrapped startu…

> and you end up having an accountant for your company abroad and one for yourself.

That makes sense. After all you have assets abroad now, parts in a company. The company’s revenue will be taxed in the U.S., but if you pay yourself dividends these can also be taxed at home. Even if you don’t pay yourself anything, I imagine in most countries you have to disclose that you have assets abroad. That makes your individual tax returns more complicated—that being said, if you feel up to it you could still do them yourself of course.

Re: Our experience with Stripe Atlas (2017)

#22

Post by soneca » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 1:25 PM UTC

hoschicz wrote: post #18

soneca wrote: post #15

My particular pain point is how to have a Stripe account living in an unsupported country (Brazil). Is Stripe Atlas the best solution? I am starting two very modest side business intending to sell to international customers (mostly US+Canada initially). One SaaS and one content membership. Any ideas?

Pick a different billing provider instead of Stripe.

That seems to be the solution. But for the side-project of content membership, I am using this new startup https://www.substack.com/. I really like their platform and business model, it is a perfect match for my needs... except they only accept Stripe for monetization of my newsletter.

Re: Our experience with Stripe Atlas (2017)

#23

Post by Brajeshwar » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 1:32 PM UTC

ilolu wrote: post #2

How much does it cost (everything included) per year approximately to run a company with zero or very close to zero revenues in US ?. I am talking about cost including Lawyer charges, Accountant charges, Tax, agent charges etc.

If you're operating at Zero Revenue in the US, you won't be needing an accountant nor a lawyer. However, you will need a registered agent for your company, which is very likely a Delaware Incorporated. The yearly fee for the agent is likely to start around $100 and up. I paid $349 /year for the Delaware Tax.

Re: Our experience with Stripe Atlas (2017)

#24

Post by adamweld » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 1:46 PM UTC

ohitsdom wrote: post #10

My biggest hesitation with Atlas is the C corp part. I don't want funding, I want to start small and bootstrap. For this, LLCs seem best so you don't get taxed twice. My most optimistic first year in revenue would be $30-60k, still well in side business territory. Am I missing something, or is Atlas not for me?

I was in a similar situation, decided atlas was not for me. You should note as well there's a $30 monthly charge on the bank account unless you keep some large ($25k? don't remember exactly) balance. This is pretty well hidden and was enough to make me keep my LLC and free business bank account (capital one).

Re: Our experience with Stripe Atlas (2017)

#25

Post by pjc50 » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 2:08 PM UTC

"You also realize that you don’t really need public financial help if you don’t get robbed to begin with. To create a SPRL/BVBA in Belgium, the capital must be fully subscribed at the time the company is incorporated, to the amount of €18,550 (of which €6,200 must actually be paid up in the account of the SPRL/BVBA). Also, the articles of association must be written before a notary. You need to be physically present in the office of a random guy you never met and will never meet again to make sure that your company can be incorporated."

Indeed. This is one of those things that is a massive, nonobvious competitive advantage for Anglosphere countries - most have an incorporation system that works for really tiny businesses, and there are very few requirements for notaries or similar. There really isn't a good reason for company registration to have non trivial costs.

Companies House will do it for £12. There are third parties who will do the registration through their API for even less, somehow. And the UK is also quite good at legal recognition for unincorporated members' associations (useful if you want a local nonprofit org).

Re: Our experience with Stripe Atlas (2017)

#26

Post by pjc50 » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 2:11 PM UTC

Silhouette wrote: post #20

pienight wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No business plan checks at all - I still don't have one. You have to pick a vague category that you do business in, but that was about it. There's mention here about difficulties getting a UK bank account but I can't speak to that as I'm UK based. For me, as a UK-er, I got a business account (and a credit card at different bank) within a few days and I've never had to do anything in person. Total cost being the £14 f…

Having just switched business banks in the UK, it appears that the rules have become a bit stricter in recent years. At minimum, you're now going to require the basic business details (registration number with Companies House, etc.) and the same standard of personal ID for all the people involved as for any of the other areas now covered by the anti-laundering rules (government-issued photo ID, recent proof of curren…

It's a strange business. AML is pretty tight on regular businesses, but the UK still has opaque structures like the Scottish Limited Partnership (may be fixed in a few years) and the various Crown dependency islands are extremely secretive.

Re: Our experience with Stripe Atlas (2017)

#27

Post by 3pt14159 » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 2:20 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #25

"You also realize that you don’t really need public financial help if you don’t get robbed to begin with. To create a SPRL/BVBA in Belgium, the capital must be fully subscribed at the time the company is incorporated, to the amount of €18,550 (of which €6,200 must actually be paid up in the account of the SPRL/BVBA). Also, the articles of association must be written before a notary. You need to be physically present…

Eh, I mostly agree, but I think there is a limit. It used to be easier here in Ontario, but then people started lighting up multiple numbered companies to the point where the government couldn't easily understand what was going on so they tightened the rules a bit. The cost is still pretty low, but it isn't as easy as it used to be.

Re: Our experience with Stripe Atlas (2017)

#28

Post by nodesocket » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 2:22 PM UTC

The biggest complaint I would have is using Silicon Valley Bank. I was a customer for over two years and their web interface is complete garbage and they charged an account service fee each and every month.

I switched over to Capital One Spark Business Checking and highly recommend them instead.

Re: Our experience with Stripe Atlas (2017)

#29

Post by jonstewart » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 2:26 PM UTC

sjroot wrote: post #14

ohitsdom wrote: post #10

My biggest hesitation with Atlas is the C corp part. I don't want funding, I want to start small and bootstrap. For this, LLCs seem best so you don't get taxed twice. My most optimistic first year in revenue would be $30-60k, still well in side business territory. Am I missing something, or is Atlas not for me?

I am replying to this because it is a question I have as well. Stripe employees - I know the Atlas page discusses the reasoning behind a C corp a bit, but I think it would be beneficial to elaborate on why it is preferable over an LLC. It’s also worth noting that the Atlas website mentions support for LLCs and other business types later down the line. Any timeline on this? As I imagine the OP of this comment is, I am…

I highly recommend a pass-through LLC. I went C-corp with my company and I just ended up getting double-taxed over its lifetime. If you need to convert, it's easy: 1) start a C-corp; 2) acquire LLC with C-corp; 3) there is no step 3. Moreoever, if you need to convert, it's probably because you have a good reason and it's essentially a fixed-price amount (should be < $10K, probably < $5K).

Re: Our experience with Stripe Atlas (2017)

#30

Post by 3pt14159 » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 2:28 PM UTC

_xnmw wrote: post #6

Anyone have experience with Stripe Atlas after starting a foreign entity? I have a Canadian Corporation which I'd like to make a wholly-owned subsidiary of that Delaware C corp (or perhaps the other way around).

I have some experience as a C-level of a funded Canadian Corp with a American related company that went on to raise from Andreesen, but this experience a bit dated (2012) and I'm not a lawyer / accountant so DYODD, this is all from faulty memory. But I still think its helpful.

Basically don't make a subsidiary, make two corps and sell the IP from the Canadian corp to the American one then license it back with a contract between the two corps. Then you set the same shareholders for both corps. As long as you are paying licensing costs for the IP to the American corp from the operating company within reasonable rates everyone is happy. Management fees / fees associated with the IP corp (costs related to the board, raising capital, non-managerial CEO work) get paid from the IP corp, and the rest gets paid from the operating company in Canada.

But note that as soon as you create an American corp all of your tax planning and accounting fees will essentially 10x and if you don't do things carefully you'll miss out on your one time capital gains exemption or other CCPC goodies, like bulk asset sale dividend tax reductions. Get a tax attorney and game it out ahead of time.