Time for third-party data brokers to emerge from the shadows? • Hacker News Board

Re: Time for third-party data brokers to emerge from the shadows?

#21

Post by bojackstorkman » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 2:22 AM UTC

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #5

The fundamental issue is that the average person in the United States and Austrailia simply don't really care for their online privacy. Offer something free and people will happily sign up and give all sorts of personal information without any hesitation. Offer a loyalty card at a store with discounts, and people will happily sign up for it. Even after the Snowden revelations, not much really happened to the governme…

I think the problem more relates to how the risk associated for privacy violations is communicated to people. "People don't care about privacy" is a reasonable conclusion to reach if you don't factor in the perception of the risk in and of itself.

That being said, I have heard that idea a lot --and again, I see how it could be a logical conclusion in certain (or even numerous) scenarios-- and I think that it might be fundamentally flawed.

Sometimes "but they don't care" sounds more like a line people use to avoid actually addressing people in a meaningful way than an actual summation of the situation.

Re: Time for third-party data brokers to emerge from the shadows?

#22

Post by nl » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 2:46 AM UTC

lsiebert wrote: post #7

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #5

The fundamental issue is that the average person in the United States and Austrailia simply don't really care for their online privacy. Offer something free and people will happily sign up and give all sorts of personal information without any hesitation. Offer a loyalty card at a store with discounts, and people will happily sign up for it. Even after the Snowden revelations, not much really happened to the governme…

People do care. They have very limited ability to make meaningful changes. But you can look at the national do not call registry in the US, and it's popularity to see that when there are options, people are happy to use them.

The success of the do-not-call registry (and the fact it is raised in this discussion at all) shows precisely how little people care about privacy.

The do-not-call registry stops people being bothered by unsolicited calls. It does nothing at all to protect privacy.

People care about the annoying calls, go on the do-not-call registry and they stop so as far as they are concerned the problem is fixed. But the companies keep collecting the data. There is zero change in privacy,

Re: Time for third-party data brokers to emerge from the shadows?

#23

Post by chiefalchemist » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 2:52 AM UTC

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #5

The fundamental issue is that the average person in the United States and Austrailia simply don't really care for their online privacy. Offer something free and people will happily sign up and give all sorts of personal information without any hesitation. Offer a loyalty card at a store with discounts, and people will happily sign up for it. Even after the Snowden revelations, not much really happened to the governme…

> "Even after the Snowden revelations, not much really happened to the government or the NSA."

True. But that says far more about the Mainstream Media than anything else. Most people dismissed the issue because it was never really made an issue.

We can debate / discuss why that was some other time. But, as we now see, the MSM drives public option.

Re: Time for third-party data brokers to emerge from the shadows?

#24

Post by chiefalchemist » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 2:56 AM UTC

lsiebert wrote: post #7

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #5

The fundamental issue is that the average person in the United States and Austrailia simply don't really care for their online privacy. Offer something free and people will happily sign up and give all sorts of personal information without any hesitation. Offer a loyalty card at a store with discounts, and people will happily sign up for it. Even after the Snowden revelations, not much really happened to the governme…

People do care. They have very limited ability to make meaningful changes. But you can look at the national do not call registry in the US, and it's popularity to see that when there are options, people are happy to use them.

People who are aware (of the danger) generally do care. But most aren't aware, or were charmed into a slumber by the lack of response by the previous administration. That is, it can't be a big deal, BHO didn't say it was, so it can't be.

Remind any Democrat about Snowden and they're likely to give you a blank stare. It's as if it never happened.

Re: Time for third-party data brokers to emerge from the shadows?

#25

Post by username223 » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 3:01 AM UTC

standyro wrote: post #8

lsiebert wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People do care. They have very limited ability to make meaningful changes. But you can look at the national do not call registry in the US, and it's popularity to see that when there are options, people are happy to use them.

I respectfully disagree with you. Most people (in the US) do not care. I used to work for an adtech company which engaged with all sorts of third party vendors (like Axciom, BlueKai, etc) and every time I would explain my job to most friends or strangers, people often rightly assumed that shady data dealing is what was going on behind ads and services like Facebook and seemed not to care. There has been little appeti…

> people often rightly assumed that shady data dealing is what was going on behind ads and services like Facebook and seemed not to care.

So people don't realize the full extent of the evil in which you were complicit? Sleep well.

Re: Time for third-party data brokers to emerge from the shadows?

#26

Post by chiefalchemist » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 3:03 AM UTC

wuliwong wrote: post #6

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #5

The fundamental issue is that the average person in the United States and Austrailia simply don't really care for their online privacy. Offer something free and people will happily sign up and give all sorts of personal information without any hesitation. Offer a loyalty card at a store with discounts, and people will happily sign up for it. Even after the Snowden revelations, not much really happened to the governme…

This article is arguing for government regulation in the area of privacy. You state how the killers and abusers of privacy in the past in Europe were the government. I am not able to connect the dots between your point and this article.

Um. The US intelligence community - per book Dragnet Nation - buys data on these markets. Regulating it will restrict the IC and require more conventional means that require warrants, etc.

Re: Time for third-party data brokers to emerge from the shadows?

#27

Post by sgc » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 3:40 AM UTC

chiefalchemist wrote: post #23

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #5

The fundamental issue is that the average person in the United States and Austrailia simply don't really care for their online privacy. Offer something free and people will happily sign up and give all sorts of personal information without any hesitation. Offer a loyalty card at a store with discounts, and people will happily sign up for it. Even after the Snowden revelations, not much really happened to the governme…

> "Even after the Snowden revelations, not much really happened to the government or the NSA." True. But that says far more about the Mainstream Media than anything else. Most people dismissed the issue because it was never really made an issue. We can debate / discuss why that was some other time. But, as we now see, the MSM drives public option.

I think one of the premises of this thread is that online social media, rather than MSM, appears to hold the best cards at this point.

Re: Time for third-party data brokers to emerge from the shadows?

#28

Post by hiram112 » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 3:45 AM UTC

standyro wrote: post #8

lsiebert wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People do care. They have very limited ability to make meaningful changes. But you can look at the national do not call registry in the US, and it's popularity to see that when there are options, people are happy to use them.

I respectfully disagree with you. Most people (in the US) do not care. I used to work for an adtech company which engaged with all sorts of third party vendors (like Axciom, BlueKai, etc) and every time I would explain my job to most friends or strangers, people often rightly assumed that shady data dealing is what was going on behind ads and services like Facebook and seemed not to care. There has been little appeti…

Most people in the US may not care, but that's because they simply do not understand how it will (or already is) affect them.

The average person thinks that, at worst, they'll just see ads that are more intelligent or targeted. Who cares, right?

The do NOT realize that these troves of data are going to be used to someday deny them health insurance, get them fired or not hired for some job, get screwed in job pay and benefit negotiations (due to companys like Experian selling you pay history to employers), be charged more than other consumers for the same product (due to being able to pay more), getting denied for loans or charged higher interest rates, not accepted to a school, refused entry in establishments because you're not a 'good' customer, etc.

And that is just what big business will do.

Wait 'till big governments around the world see just how much power the Chinese are able to exert over their populace playing the same data games.

Re: Time for third-party data brokers to emerge from the shadows?

#29

Post by dominotw » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 3:46 AM UTC

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #5

The fundamental issue is that the average person in the United States and Austrailia simply don't really care for their online privacy. Offer something free and people will happily sign up and give all sorts of personal information without any hesitation. Offer a loyalty card at a store with discounts, and people will happily sign up for it. Even after the Snowden revelations, not much really happened to the governme…

Forget about average person. Read the thread about moviepass on hackernews. Even tech savvy hn users are willing to trade location privacy for cheap movie tickets.

Re: Time for third-party data brokers to emerge from the shadows?

#30

Post by siruncledrew » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 4:10 AM UTC

I would like to see a network graph of the gathering and exchange of people's information between these data brokers. It would simultaneously be really interesting and really shocking. I can't imagine how many thousands of DBs out there are with a smorgasbord of personal data.