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Do You Trust This Computer? [video]

doyoutrustthiscomputer.org

21–30 of 53 posts

Re: Do You Trust This Computer? [video]

#21
Honestly, I personally don't believe that regulations would solve or diminish the potential issues related to AI. We will be constantly challenged by people/machines trying to dominate others, and for that reason, I don't see regulations being the solution, but education instead. I think that people should better understand the trade-offs that AI can bring to our lives and act based on that. Therefore, democratizing AI and educating people about it should be a good starting point for this problem.

Also, I tend to agree with Mark Cuban[1] about the importance of philosophy degree in the near future. There will be so many issues to be assessed that such degree would bring much value to the society.

[1] https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/20/mark-cuban-philosophy-degree...

Re: Do You Trust This Computer? [video]

#22

Regulation comes up later in the film. Ross Anderson, professor at Cambridge University recently wrote, https://m.cacm.acm.org/magazines/2018/3/225467-making-securi... "Once software becomes pervasive in devices that surround us, that are online, and that can kill us, the software industry will have to come of age. As security becomes ever more about safety rather than just privacy, we will have sharper policy debate…

> "The notion that software engineers are not responsible for things that go wrong will be put to rest for good, and we will have to work out how to develop and maintain code that will go on working dependably for decades in environments that change and evolve." That sounds like a really hard problem to solve. Not only would you need to have an audit trail for the history of changes to the code, you'd also have to fi…

> That sounds like a really hard problem to solve.

Yes, but we still have to solve it… or, at the very least, make a good effort to improve the situation.

Biology and chemistry already have systems around them to help limit any damage from, for example, smallpox research or mishandling chlorine triflouride, and they manage this without needing everyone to wear safety goggles when mixing yeast and water.

Re: Do You Trust This Computer? [video]

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Ivory Tower has a way of phrasing concepts such that they are framed by finality and totality. The mentalility comes with having made it through the admissions process, and passing your final exams with a good grade point average, conferring some lofty degree of distinguishment into one's possession. So, to look at the words: The notion that software engineers are not responsible for things that go wrong will be…

> software engineers I've had the idea for a while that most of us practice software development rather than software engineering. I have a degree in computer engineering but i consider myself software developer now rather than a software engineer. The reason, I don't practice engineering in the legal and professional sense. In engineering school we learn about engineering as a formal process and professional respons…

[deleted]

Re: Do You Trust This Computer? [video]

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Ivory Tower has a way of phrasing concepts such that they are framed by finality and totality. The mentalility comes with having made it through the admissions process, and passing your final exams with a good grade point average, conferring some lofty degree of distinguishment into one's possession. So, to look at the words: The notion that software engineers are not responsible for things that go wrong will be…

> software engineers I've had the idea for a while that most of us practice software development rather than software engineering. I have a degree in computer engineering but i consider myself software developer now rather than a software engineer. The reason, I don't practice engineering in the legal and professional sense. In engineering school we learn about engineering as a formal process and professional respons…

There's no legal framework, to distinguish devices that matter from devices that don't.

There's no clear demarcation between devising a convenient contraption, versus implementing an inadvisable hack that leads to a hazardous outcome, especially within the scope of web based systems, since no portion of the internet is to be regarded as reliable life-saving infrastructure.

I think the mistake is to trust packet-switched networks and peer-oriented protocols as reliable systems at all.

If you cannot control the whole system, end-to-end, and any unwitting peer can over-consume bandwidth (jamming traffic and communication with interference), effectively cutting you off from a necessity, why would you bet your life on the availability of that system?

Re: Do You Trust This Computer? [video]

#26
post #19
post #14

I watched the first 20 minutes or so. What I really miss here is some naration. A documentary that is tied together by quotes from interviews and flashy stockfootage is hard for me to follow.

This is exactly how I felt. The whole thing is like a stream of consciousness experience without any central story or narration. I couldn't take it. It's like one big infomercial or something

I agree. 10 min was all I could bare. It's just a big mix of sound bites.

Re: Do You Trust This Computer? [video]

#27

Regulation comes up later in the film. Ross Anderson, professor at Cambridge University recently wrote, https://m.cacm.acm.org/magazines/2018/3/225467-making-securi... "Once software becomes pervasive in devices that surround us, that are online, and that can kill us, the software industry will have to come of age. As security becomes ever more about safety rather than just privacy, we will have sharper policy debate…

> "The notion that software engineers are not responsible for things that go wrong will be put to rest for good, and we will have to work out how to develop and maintain code that will go on working dependably for decades in environments that change and evolve." That sounds like a really hard problem to solve. Not only would you need to have an audit trail for the history of changes to the code, you'd also have to fi…

The Anderson article mentions research into extended maintenance practices:

"As we build more complex artifacts, which last longer and are more safety critical, the long-term maintenance cost may become the limiting factor. Two things follow. First, software sustainability will be a big research challenge for computer scientists. Second, it will also be a major business opportunity for firms who can cut the cost. On the technical side, at present it is hard to patch even five-year-old software. The toolchain usually will not compile on a modern platform, leaving options such as keeping the original development environment of computers and test rigs, but not connecting it to the Internet. Could we develop on virtual platforms that would support multiple versions?"

ELC 2016: Approaches to Ultra-Long Software Maintenance: https://elinux.org/images/f/fb/Approaches_to_Ultra-Long_Soft...

ELC 2017: Long-Term Maintenance, or How to (Mis-)Manage Embedded Systems for 10+ Years: https://www.linux.com/news/event/ELCE/2017/long-term-embedde...

Re: Do You Trust This Computer? [video]

#28

Very strongly recommended. The interviewed subjects are largely experts in AI, and many are concerned. The film is likely a bit long to trigger much by way of discussion here, though that's not always bad. Word is that free play / download is this weekend only. Grab a copy via yt-download if you can't watch immediately.

That's weird, because I just got to the part in Pinker's Enlightenment Now where he says the large majority of experts in both artificial and human intelligence are not concerned.

Who is misrepresenting the expert consensus? Or are they both misrepresenting the fact that there is a consensus?

Re: Do You Trust This Computer? [video]

#29
post #14

I watched the first 20 minutes or so. What I really miss here is some naration. A documentary that is tied together by quotes from interviews and flashy stockfootage is hard for me to follow.

Especially the quotes from random kids. They already had vapid quotes from adults, and the kid quotes added nothing.

Re: Do You Trust This Computer? [video]

#30

So I bailed after the first X minutes. Why cant we just unplug the power and/or the network cable and move on from this FUD?

Because without intelligent computers, the world we've built for ourselves would just... stop working. They have brought us medical advancements not possible 20 years ago. So we would pull the plug and kill many people. Not only that, but countries are competing against countries with their technology. So if America pulls the plug, everyone else is far more advanced and you have lost your military and political power. There is no "pulling the plug" unless the world is willing to pull the plug and willing to deal with what amounts to another dark age-- in which case, technology such as we see today is likely to develop again.

This tech is almost inevitable. We are creator beings. We want to make something that matches our intelligence-- and we always have. We've made pantheons of Gods to match and overcome us, we've made these autonomous beings in the stories we tell and in the dolls we played with when we were kids. The problem is that we don't know what machine intelligence may do when we let it out in the world. If they can learn the tasks we want them to learn, can they then learn how to learn a task we didn't assign them to? What kind of task would that be? How would we control it?

There may be no controlling it. But if we started focusing on this problem right now we may be able to figure it out. Instead, most everyone in AI is working to pump out as many "smart" things as possible, trying to develop better learning algorithms, get AI to become as human as possible, trying to make machines that behave like us but better, without paying attention to the future costs.

Maybe for the first time in human history we can learn without making the mistake.

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