Is that Russian ship still parked nearby? I recall reading about that a while back. Maybe that's where the signal is coming from. https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/22/politics/russia-spy-ship-us-c...
Feds: There are hostile stingrays in DC, but we don’t know how to find them
21–30 of 101 posts
Re: Feds: There are hostile stingrays in DC, but we don’t know how to find them
#22Is that Russian ship still parked nearby? I recall reading about that a while back. Maybe that's where the signal is coming from. https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/22/politics/russia-spy-ship-us-c...
I admit that I don't have much expertise on the matter, having only ever operated a GSM cell site simulator (never LTE), but the max range I remember (in ideal conditions) is something like 35 miles.
Re: Feds: There are hostile stingrays in DC, but we don’t know how to find them
#23I work in wireless telecom: Really doubtful "we don't know how to find them". The FCC's enforcement bureau has a set of vans equipped to find unauthorized transmitters. IMSI catchers must transmit and remain on the air. It would be very risky to operate, even briefly, a portable imsi catcher in a briefcase and move it around WA DC, nevermind one that remained in fixed locations for hours. The only other explanation I…
The other explanation is very low power / short range e.g. femtocells. If a Stingray-like device is affecting a single building or the like, targeting a particular person, it likely won't be noticed by anyone.
Re: Feds: There are hostile stingrays in DC, but we don’t know how to find them
#24I work in wireless telecom: Really doubtful "we don't know how to find them". The FCC's enforcement bureau has a set of vans equipped to find unauthorized transmitters. IMSI catchers must transmit and remain on the air. It would be very risky to operate, even briefly, a portable imsi catcher in a briefcase and move it around WA DC, nevermind one that remained in fixed locations for hours. The only other explanation I…
Depends on how much the devices cost to procure, and the budget of the party using them. Seems like these could be treated as "black-throws" given the right cost:budget ratio.
I am not familiar with this term, “black-throw”, can you elaborate?
Re: Feds: There are hostile stingrays in DC, but we don’t know how to find them
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
Depends on how much the devices cost to procure, and the budget of the party using them. Seems like these could be treated as "black-throws" given the right cost:budget ratio.
I am not familiar with this term, “black-throw”, can you elaborate?
blackthrow or svartkast is a term for a device left behind in potentially hostile territory to continue operating until it is discovered or fails
Re: Feds: There are hostile stingrays in DC, but we don’t know how to find them
#26I work in wireless telecom: Really doubtful "we don't know how to find them". The FCC's enforcement bureau has a set of vans equipped to find unauthorized transmitters. IMSI catchers must transmit and remain on the air. It would be very risky to operate, even briefly, a portable imsi catcher in a briefcase and move it around WA DC, nevermind one that remained in fixed locations for hours. The only other explanation I…
>It would be very risky to operate, even briefly, a portable imsi catcher in a briefcase and move it around WA DC, nevermind one that remained in fixed locations for hours.
how about quick switching between several [semi-stationary or briefcase carried] catchers (by analogy with an old Russia/USSR anti-aircraft tactic of quickly switching between several radars to avoid being detected and locked-in by an anti-radar missile :).
Re: Feds: There are hostile stingrays in DC, but we don’t know how to find them
#27Most will probably be owned by law enforcement. Many will be operating without the benefit of a warrant. So what do you do when you find one? You won't make many friends if you interfere with an ongoing investigation particularly if you raise questions about the legality of the operation at the same time.
Things were much the same back in the old days. If a telephone employee would find listening devices on the lines they were best off just quietly removing them and disposing of them. In the wild, surveillance equipment legally installed under a warrant looks exactly the same as all of the other kinds.
So in practice everyone got to tap phone lines, just as long as they didn't annoy anyone too official while doing so. The targets would never find out, unless the were willing to climb a telephone pole and check for themselves. The same thing will probably happen with stingray type devices. People like private investigators are likely already using them.
Re: Feds: There are hostile stingrays in DC, but we don’t know how to find them
#28Layman question: one can limit their exposure with encrypted VoIP communications (e.g. FaceTime) and chats (iMessage, Signal), correct?
That being said, the intercepter would still know:
- phone being connected (IMEI)
- location of the phone
- which servers were requested, but not the encrypted content (yet)
- how much data was transmitted, "call time"
So if two phones were talking with each other over FaceTime connected to stingrays, a third-party can still deduce that they were talking to each other given the amount of data being transferred and when the requests occurred.
Re: Feds: There are hostile stingrays in DC, but we don’t know how to find them
#29I work in wireless telecom: Really doubtful "we don't know how to find them". The FCC's enforcement bureau has a set of vans equipped to find unauthorized transmitters. IMSI catchers must transmit and remain on the air. It would be very risky to operate, even briefly, a portable imsi catcher in a briefcase and move it around WA DC, nevermind one that remained in fixed locations for hours. The only other explanation I…
I'm laughing because that's how this discussion will go when posted here: We'll detail a method to catch rogue sting-rays, then brainstorm how to operate them with less risk.
Re: Feds: There are hostile stingrays in DC, but we don’t know how to find them
#30I work in wireless telecom: Really doubtful "we don't know how to find them". The FCC's enforcement bureau has a set of vans equipped to find unauthorized transmitters. IMSI catchers must transmit and remain on the air. It would be very risky to operate, even briefly, a portable imsi catcher in a briefcase and move it around WA DC, nevermind one that remained in fixed locations for hours. The only other explanation I…
>It would be very risky to operate, even briefly, a portable imsi catcher in a briefcase and move it around WA DC, nevermind one that remained in fixed locations for hours. how about quick switching between several [semi-stationary or briefcase carried] catchers (by analogy with an old Russia/USSR anti-aircraft tactic of quickly switching between several radars to avoid being detected and locked-in by an anti-radar m…
Theoretically possible. Using current off the shelf tech, several imsi catchers could be networked together by normal LTE data networks with battle tested VPN crypto. Doable with any mifi type hotspot device or even just a modern phone and tethering. People with high end spectrum analyzers and directional antennas would struggle to locate a thing that only powers on for 1-2 minutes, and the relocated to a random location. If I were trying to find such things I would need three separate DF (direction finding) teams, and try to establish a pattern of behavior or movement on the part of the operators to narrow down the target areas. Could take weeks.