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Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

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Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#21

Post by emiliobumachar »

lucb1e wrote: post #8

I'm sure they had their "permission" on page 27 of the terms of service. This isn't news... My opinion is still that those terms of services are silly. If I ever do start my own business, one of the things on the checklist is to have a minimal, if any, terms of service, because nobody wants to waste time reading them, and 99% of what is in ToSes is in the law anyway. Except, of course, data collection beyond function…

I don't know... are they not written in blood, so to speak?

For example, I assume all warranty disclaimers include "not even the implied warranty of merchantability or fitness for a particular purpose" because somewhere, in a legal dispute, "no warranty" was not enough.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#22

Post by jonathankoren »

Gaelan wrote: post #5

The Facebook blog post includes this screenshot [0]. That's definitely an opt-in, although I could imagine a non-technical person clicking through it without reading the grey text. Better than nothing. [0]: https://fbnewsroomus.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/opt-in_scre...

It is not "better than nothing," it is the minimum that is technically and legally required.

The UI is intentionally deceptive.

The text is deceptive. The big text says "Text anyone in your phone," which sounds great, but doesn't actually say anything about data sharing. The small low contrast text, describes what they're doing. They know that by putting it small and grey, most people wont read it.

The buttons are deceptive. It looks like there's only one button.

Even by putting all the permission stuff in a row on first startup is push ploy. Everyone knows, people just keep clicking OK until they get to actual app. People don't read the pages. People don't read the user agreements. They just want to get through the roadblocks as fast as possible so they can get to what they want.

None of this is by accident. All of these elements are chosen to push people towards the desired outcome, to upload your contacts, SMS, and call history as quickly as possible.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#23

Post by iovrthoughtthis »

deely wrote: post #19
lucb1e wrote: post #8

I'm sure they had their "permission" on page 27 of the terms of service. This isn't news... My opinion is still that those terms of services are silly. If I ever do start my own business, one of the things on the checklist is to have a minimal, if any, terms of service, because nobody wants to waste time reading them, and 99% of what is in ToSes is in the law anyway. Except, of course, data collection beyond function…

And, what happen if some big comp asks you to 'polish' a bit ToS, to make it more 'lawyer style', because otherwise they didn't spent additional $ 10m on you business?

This is the real bullshit.

Other people's lawyers are the worst.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#24

Post by zaarn »

deely wrote: post #19
lucb1e wrote: post #8

I'm sure they had their "permission" on page 27 of the terms of service. This isn't news... My opinion is still that those terms of services are silly. If I ever do start my own business, one of the things on the checklist is to have a minimal, if any, terms of service, because nobody wants to waste time reading them, and 99% of what is in ToSes is in the law anyway. Except, of course, data collection beyond function…

And, what happen if some big comp asks you to 'polish' a bit ToS, to make it more 'lawyer style', because otherwise they didn't spent additional $ 10m on you business?

Personally, I'd say no because I value the trust of my users over corporate money.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#25

Post by richforrester »

iovrthoughtthis wrote: post #23
deely wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, what happen if some big comp asks you to 'polish' a bit ToS, to make it more 'lawyer style', because otherwise they didn't spent additional $ 10m on you business?

This is the real bullshit. Other people's lawyers are the worst.

Just for the record; your lawyers are other people's other people's lawyers.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#26

Post by tehlike »

Maro wrote: post #10

In the last days, FB stock has lost ~15% of its value (from $185 to $160), that's like 2 Twitters.. Next earnings call will be early May probably.

There will be a rebounce, if EFX is any indicator, and FB is a hotter stock with higher profit margin.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#27

Post by dpwm »

emiliobumachar wrote: post #21
lucb1e wrote: post #8

I'm sure they had their "permission" on page 27 of the terms of service. This isn't news... My opinion is still that those terms of services are silly. If I ever do start my own business, one of the things on the checklist is to have a minimal, if any, terms of service, because nobody wants to waste time reading them, and 99% of what is in ToSes is in the law anyway. Except, of course, data collection beyond function…

I don't know... are they not written in blood, so to speak? For example, I assume all warranty disclaimers include "not even the implied warranty of merchantability or fitness for a particular purpose" because somewhere, in a legal dispute, "no warranty" was not enough.

And if the warranty-disclaimed item had been sold and depending on the nature of the sale, such term probably wouldn't hold up in many jurisdictions. Otherwise such a term can be carte blanche to fraud.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#28

Post by qwerty456127 »

Of course it does and can deny it - isn't a user forced to grant the permission when installing the app?

IMHO Google is to stop abuses like this on the Android OS level by means of allowing users to deny any particular permission an app demands and still install the app, encouraging users to grant/deny every particular permission consciously and forcing the app authors to handle denial of any particular permission gracefully without crashes and without denying to function (but in the cases when it is absolutely physically impossible to fulfill the function the user invokes without the missing permission).

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#29

Post by mrarjen »

I always enjoy these lawyer correct texts by facebook and how we all know it's been going on for a long time now. If only the general public would suddenly all figure this out!

It's 50/50 now if everyone will forget this next month, or if the new trend continues to remove facebook.

Re: Facebook denies it collects call and SMS data from phones without permission

#30

Post by dpwm »

richforrester wrote: post #25
iovrthoughtthis wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the real bullshit. Other people's lawyers are the worst.

Just for the record; your lawyers are other people's other people's lawyers.

Statistically speaking, they're probably not the same "other people's lawyers." As in, you're probably small and they're probably big.

Big firms acting for small clients generally doesn't work out so well for the small client.

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