Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes • Hacker News Board

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#21

Post by jonathanstrange » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 1:58 PM UTC

inetknght wrote: post #7

tomohawk wrote: post #2

I've had non-compete agreements provided to me to sign in the past, usually as part of a packet of things to sign. In each case I just pocketed them without signing them. I've never had a company come back later and demand that I sign the thing. If they don't do their diligence, I don't see why I should do it for them. In other words, just because someone puts something in front of you to sign doesn't mean you have t…

Now if only I could do that with software-enforced EULAs. You know, the things that nobody reads but generally sign away all your rights.

In theory you can (but unfortunately nobody does).

Send a letter via snail mail that clearly states that you disagree with their EULA but were unfortunately only made aware of the EULA after your purchase. Include a printed, revised EULA with your proposals for changes. Be reasonable in the changes you propose.

If they reply to you that they disagree with the changes, they can prohibit you from using the software or service, but then you're also entitled to a full refund, of course.

If they forget to reply, their EULA will not be enforceable.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#22

Post by TheCondor » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 1:59 PM UTC

joezydeco wrote: post #5

So recently I came across an Invention Disclosure agreement that a company wanted me to sign. The phrasing of this kind of threw me off: "I will promptly communicate to the Company each and every invention, discovery or item of intellectual property made or conceived by me, either as an individual or jointly with others, during my period of employment, and I agree that any such invention, discovery or item of intelle…

The first part is stock boiler plate, one year after you leave? That is interesting.

Most companies simply don’t care, save for inventions directly in their field. I would think this would typically result in a contract dispute with your new employer, not with you so much. The new employer is going to claim your inventions, file various patents and such, then the old one tries to wave your employment contract around and lay claim to them? It’s interesting, I don’t see it being withheld in many courts though. They’d be on the back foot, at best, if the new company already filed invention paperwork. Was there a signing bonus or something to pay for these future inventions? Or gauanteed future pay when you file them? Maybe I’m wrong, most of these documents arent terribly enforcable as it is.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#23

Post by agmcleod » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 1:59 PM UTC

I think the only non compete i've had was for one of my 4-month co-op jobs. I think it lasted only a few months, and it was not to work at a software company in the same field. Which was fine, as I would be at school during that time anyways.

I have signed agreements where anything I do on the company laptop is considered theres. So I just made sure to only use it for work, and put nothing else on it.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#24

Post by Vinnl » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 2:00 PM UTC

tomohawk wrote: post #6

sillyquiet wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, I get that approach, but tbh I would rather hash that out with a company before I get hired rather than 4 months down the road when some HR person notices the paperwork is incomplete.

By that point, the paperwork is complete. The hiring completes the transaction as being satisfactory to both sides.

I'd still prefer to have issues resolved before I start employment somewhere, rather than having to deal with it when you're already at work and walking away is a bigger step.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#25

Post by logfromblammo » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 2:00 PM UTC

wemdyjreichert wrote: post #10

How can I politely say "no way" while still getting the job?

The answer is that you don't want to take the job if saying "no way" would be a problem. It's a coal-mine canary whose death indicates that more severe problems will occur after you have committed yourself.

The presence of the clause that requires rejection is itself a lesser warning, but not necessarily cause for immediate alarm.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#26

Post by vorpalhex » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 2:01 PM UTC

joezydeco wrote: post #5

So recently I came across an Invention Disclosure agreement that a company wanted me to sign. The phrasing of this kind of threw me off: "I will promptly communicate to the Company each and every invention, discovery or item of intellectual property made or conceived by me, either as an individual or jointly with others, during my period of employment, and I agree that any such invention, discovery or item of intelle…

My wife had to deal with one of those, and it was abstractly written to the point of us paying a lawyer to read over it.

The lawyer had her fill out quite an additional bit of disclosure about it and did not like that clause. At the time my wife really wanted the position, but I doubt she would bother going forward with such a contract.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#27

Post by saltandvinegar » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 2:02 PM UTC

I had an employment contract where I appreciate the IP competitiveness concerns of the firm/industry. The employment contract specifies that if they wish to enforce the 1 year non-compete they must pay my full base salary for that time. Seemed like a reasonable compromise to me.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#28

Post by cynicalreason » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 2:02 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #19

tomohawk wrote: post #2

I've had non-compete agreements provided to me to sign in the past, usually as part of a packet of things to sign. In each case I just pocketed them without signing them. I've never had a company come back later and demand that I sign the thing. If they don't do their diligence, I don't see why I should do it for them. In other words, just because someone puts something in front of you to sign doesn't mean you have t…

I've had two agreements that were separate pages, but all the recent ones were part of the actual job offer or employment contract. I feel like that's becoming more the standard/boilerplate.

Is that even legal ? I think in Europe they can't be part of the employment contract but as additional papers ( i may be wrong )

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#29

Post by bungie4 » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 2:02 PM UTC

Accept a job, NCA/NDA had a clause that gave them rights to any intellectual property I had developed in the PREVIOUS 20 years. I refused to sign. I was looking for work again after that pay period.

Sidenote: The company I now work for does business with the first company, I ended up inheriting the first companies code base written for my current company. It looks like they can't hire much beyond script kiddies.

Re: Why I Don't Sign Non-Competes

#30

Post by asaph » Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 2:04 PM UTC

tomohawk wrote: post #2

I've had non-compete agreements provided to me to sign in the past, usually as part of a packet of things to sign. In each case I just pocketed them without signing them. I've never had a company come back later and demand that I sign the thing. If they don't do their diligence, I don't see why I should do it for them. In other words, just because someone puts something in front of you to sign doesn't mean you have t…

Lately more companies are using digital hiring packets which employees e-sign, making this strategy essentially moot. You're unlikely to sneak under the radar when each field is required.