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Ancient DNA Is Rewriting Human and Neanderthal History

theatlantic.com

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Re: Ancient DNA Is Rewriting Human and Neanderthal History

#21

Post by fein »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #19
fein wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've gotten to a point where Europeans seem to be looking for anything to give them some minority culture status. Just take pride in who and what you are and where you came from.

It's pretty much frowned upon to be in any way proud to be a pale skinned European; mainstream media demands we feel shame for all the oppression we did in the centuries before our birth. That said, I don't understand how I've can be "proud" of which country you were born in, makes no sense to me.

You use 'we' to describe your collective, showing you understand the concept of heritage, and then go on and say you don't understand pride in your people.

Only whites seem to have this internal conflict, and that makes far less sense than being proud of the society your people created.

Re: Ancient DNA Is Rewriting Human and Neanderthal History

#22

Post by allthenews »

mc32 wrote: post #17
ryandvm wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not heard that either. According to 23andMe, I'm in the 99th percentile for Neanderthal DNA variants and my ancestry report claims I'm a disappointingly un-diverse 99.9% European.

I don't think I'd ever hear a non white say they are disappointed with being 100% what they are, be they Asian, Black, etc. Maybe there are, I've never home across them, but a few whites have this tendency to wish for having "interesting" ancestry like sen. Warren. It's something odd. As if they are somewhat uncomfortable on their own skin. Shame is the wrong word, but i can't find the right descriptor. On the other…

What you are seeing is simply a reflection of what is socially acceptable.

Re: Ancient DNA Is Rewriting Human and Neanderthal History

#23

Post by yoodenvranx »

fein wrote: post #13
kapilkaisare wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think he is. Let me try to explain why. I haven't done a DNA ancestry test yet, but I imagine I would be pretty happy to learn that there were several peoples/races?/cultures behind me, beyond my apparent South Asian heritage. This does not imply that I am ashamed of my origins - quite the contrary, in fact - but that I imagine it would be nice to ... be more, a citizen of the world, in a fashion. I would exp…

We've gotten to a point where Europeans seem to be looking for anything to give them some minority culture status. Just take pride in who and what you are and where you came from.

> Just take pride in [...] where you came from.

I think one problem is that everyone has a different definition of the word 'pride'. Over here in Europe a lot of people think of pride as something you feels when you actively achieve something.

Ran a marathon? You can be proud of this!

You were born white/black/asian/... in France/Turkey/Spain? There is not much to be proud of, at the end of the day it's just pure luck who your parents are and in which culture you are born.

Schopenhauer said it best:

"The cheapest sort of pride is national pride; for if a man is proud of his own nation, it argues that he has no qualities of his own of which he can be proud; otherwise he would not have recourse to those which he shares with so many millions of his fellowmen.

The man who is endowed with important personal qualities will be only too ready to see clearly in what respects his own nation falls short, since their failings will be constantly before his eyes.

But every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud adopts, as a last resource, pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and glad to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority."

Re: Ancient DNA Is Rewriting Human and Neanderthal History

#24

Post by fein »

yoodenvranx wrote: post #23
fein wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've gotten to a point where Europeans seem to be looking for anything to give them some minority culture status. Just take pride in who and what you are and where you came from.

> Just take pride in [...] where you came from. I think one problem is that everyone has a different definition of the word 'pride'. Over here in Europe a lot of people think of pride as something you feels when you actively achieve something. Ran a marathon? You can be proud of this! You were born white/black/asian/... in France/Turkey/Spain? There is not much to be proud of, at the end of the day it's just pure luc…

You should read what Schopenhauer had to say about Jews.

Re: Ancient DNA Is Rewriting Human and Neanderthal History

#25

Post by Real_S »

fosco wrote: post #2

>Today, surprisingly, the people carrying the most Neanderthal DNA are not in Europe but in East Asia Interesting, I would love to see more information on this -- I had not heard this previously.

The intermixing was complex. Many groups migrating and interbreeding at various times.

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/20/science/a-new-theory-on-h...

Re: Ancient DNA Is Rewriting Human and Neanderthal History

#26

Post by staplers »

haihaibye wrote: post #14
evrydayhustling wrote: post #7

What an awesome antidote to today's depressing story about white nationalists coopting Black Panther as an affirmation of ethnicity-based political states. If science can keep reminding people how random and fragile current ethnic or national divisions are in the face of time, maybe more people will focus on building knowledge that lasts longer.

I'm interested in comparing your perspective with the people in favor of ethnicity-based political states. I imagine they want a future where their genes carry on while you are interested in "knowledge that lasts" You could say they are gene-centric and you are meme-centric? Of two futures, which would you prefer? 1. Where your descendants/relatives are alive but have little in common with your values (eg compare bro…

Are you suggesting that by mating with similar 'ethnicity' that someones genes are more likely to carry on? I thought it was common knowledge that more diverse DNA has a better chance at survival.

Seems like you're suggesting inbreeding is favorable for procreation.

Re: Ancient DNA Is Rewriting Human and Neanderthal History

#27

Post by noelwelsh »

jbeales wrote: post #8
fosco wrote: post #2

>Today, surprisingly, the people carrying the most Neanderthal DNA are not in Europe but in East Asia Interesting, I would love to see more information on this -- I had not heard this previously.

It makes fairly logical sense. Neanderthals were fairly well-installed in Europe when modern humans appeared in Africa. As modern humans would have expanded northward into Europe, done their thing with the Neanderthals, (some breeding, lots of killing), and continued eastward, so the human population still in Africa would probably have no Neanderthal DNA, but the population in Asia would carry the results of some int…

I don't think the concept of a species is well defined. Tiger and lions can interbreed, as can donkeys and horses. And then there are ring species. Biology does whatever it does and then humans try to fit words around it.

Edit: correct mules to horses

Re: Ancient DNA Is Rewriting Human and Neanderthal History

#28

Post by mhluongo »

noelwelsh wrote: post #27
jbeales wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes fairly logical sense. Neanderthals were fairly well-installed in Europe when modern humans appeared in Africa. As modern humans would have expanded northward into Europe, done their thing with the Neanderthals, (some breeding, lots of killing), and continued eastward, so the human population still in Africa would probably have no Neanderthal DNA, but the population in Asia would carry the results of some int…

I don't think the concept of a species is well defined. Tiger and lions can interbreed, as can donkeys and horses. And then there are ring species. Biology does whatever it does and then humans try to fit words around it. Edit: correct mules to horses

You're thinking donkeys and horses. I believe a mule is the sterile result of that interbreeding.

Re: Ancient DNA Is Rewriting Human and Neanderthal History

#29

Post by ardfie »

staplers wrote: post #26
haihaibye wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm interested in comparing your perspective with the people in favor of ethnicity-based political states. I imagine they want a future where their genes carry on while you are interested in "knowledge that lasts" You could say they are gene-centric and you are meme-centric? Of two futures, which would you prefer? 1. Where your descendants/relatives are alive but have little in common with your values (eg compare bro…

Are you suggesting that by mating with similar 'ethnicity' that someones genes are more likely to carry on? I thought it was common knowledge that more diverse DNA has a better chance at survival. Seems like you're suggesting inbreeding is favorable for procreation.

According to this source, third-cousin pairings are the sweet spot

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-incest-is-be...

Re: Ancient DNA Is Rewriting Human and Neanderthal History

#30

Post by mc32 »

allthenews wrote: post #22
mc32 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I'd ever hear a non white say they are disappointed with being 100% what they are, be they Asian, Black, etc. Maybe there are, I've never home across them, but a few whites have this tendency to wish for having "interesting" ancestry like sen. Warren. It's something odd. As if they are somewhat uncomfortable on their own skin. Shame is the wrong word, but i can't find the right descriptor. On the other…

What you are seeing is simply a reflection of what is socially acceptable.

So you're saying whites have the privilege of wishing they had "interesting" DNA history, but others don't have that privilege, even with all they have in say East Asia. I think it's more with social cues and pressures.
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