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Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

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Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#21

Post by felxh »

I certainly agree with article that complex looking appliances subconsciously make us think that the said appliance is more powerful and has more features. I also agree that this would be a selling point to many people. OTH I also know many people (i would say less technical inclined people), that see a complex looking appliance and think "omg i will never figure out how to use that. It probably does all sorts of advanced stuff, but all I want do is make toast".

Now, whether you can convince these people that they also should pay more for their simple looking appliance, or even convince them that the simple looking one can actually do all that 'advanced stuff' as well, is another question. I would guess it depends on how sleek and high-quality you manage to make it look. There is a thin line between "looks simple because it probably is very cheap and basic" and "looks simple but also seems to be high quality and professional"

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#22

Post by akshayubhat »

symkat wrote: post #20
akshayubhat wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple Mac's aren't a success considering their market share. [Personal opinions are irrelevant] Your argument is fallacious: iPod evolved to address the feature issue: so from a single Classic iPod you now have shuffle, nano and touch. even within each type say iPod nano there has been considerable change. Check out the latest nano and the earlier one, adding touchscreen is same as adding complexity. It's probably yo…

"It's probably your Apple bias which seems to be at play here." Yes, because obviously Apple is not considered by their dominating market share of both the MP3[1] and Phone[2] sectors. Apple is also obviously a company that puts tons of knobs, dials and switches on their products to sell them like the toaster in the article and my pointing them out had nothing to do with this. Silly me, and my Apple Fangirlism. [1] h…

Again your fanboiism at play:

1: you disregard my statement about evolution of ipod from a simple to a complex interface. Your link shows 3 different types of iPod, which shows that simplicity didn't work and design had to evolve, to incorporate different needs.

2: In regards to iPhone, Blackberry dominates the market share and guess why? Because they provide a much needed functionality "QWERTY keypad", which proves the point of the linked article.

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#23

Post by alexiocowabunga »

If we were to consider any coffee shop chain - the complexity in some of the coffee that is displayed is extremely apparent.

We can go from £1.50 for an espresso all the way up to £3.60 for something that may resemble a coffee but probably only costs a few pence more to produce!

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#24

Post by jacquesm »

michael_dorfman wrote: post #17
jacquesm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sorry: it is the apparent complexity that drives the sale. Maybe that holds true for some applications, but for the most part (in my experience at least) 'hiding' is not synonymous with 'having the right stuff at the right time'. To make your application appear complex is just going to increase the barrier to entry. I'm fairly sure the only reason I'm in business and have been for a long time is because the first c…

To make your application appear complex is just going to increase the barrier to entry. That depends on the customer segment you are targeting. Over-complex design does not drive sales unless you're trying to send all your competitors down a dead end street. Or, if you're selling "Enterprise Software". I've had to re-design things to be less simple, in order to make them more attractive to customers, and had my staff…

That's kind of the point right? When end users do not drive sales you are likely right, as your experience indicates. But when end users do drive sales (and for most of us here that's day to day life) then a clean interface is key.

B2B is different in this respect than B2C, and conspicuous consumption is different from both of those still.

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#25

Post by asciitaxi »

I think before the advent of personal computing, a bit of extra complexity was ok. Life was pretty simple. You had a car, a stereo, a tv with a button for each channel, a stove/oven, and a calculator. You actually had room in your mind and time in your weekend to read the manual and figure out your new VCR. It was fun!

Making complex things was actually expensive to do, so a microwave with lots of functions cost more than one with a single button that said "heat up my food". This made it a bit of a status symbol. It was also the start of everything becoming digital, so it was cool for everything to have lots of buttons and a fancy readout.

Now we have several TVs, all with several boxes, incorporating our audio system, and connected to several services. We have smartphones, computers, tablets, printers and routers. Then there's all the software on and off the web to figure out, configure, and get working together. And you have to deal with all that at work, too. It's tough just to stay afloat.

So, the last thing you want is a digital toaster. They can make it look as complex as they want, but it won't make it look any more expensive. Today something looks expensive if it is simple, heavy, and looks like it was handcrafted by a German man. People still lapse into 1980s thinking and make the association that complicated means better, but that will wear off.

I'm not saying that extra features aren't sometimes important, but features are so easy to add to things today. You just have to type a few lines of code. Making someting look complex is easy and inexpensive. Making something complex look simple takes much for time, effort, money, and talent. Increasingly, people will pay for that.

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#26

Post by akshayubhat »

michael_dorfman wrote: post #17
jacquesm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sorry: it is the apparent complexity that drives the sale. Maybe that holds true for some applications, but for the most part (in my experience at least) 'hiding' is not synonymous with 'having the right stuff at the right time'. To make your application appear complex is just going to increase the barrier to entry. I'm fairly sure the only reason I'm in business and have been for a long time is because the first c…

To make your application appear complex is just going to increase the barrier to entry. That depends on the customer segment you are targeting. Over-complex design does not drive sales unless you're trying to send all your competitors down a dead end street. Or, if you're selling "Enterprise Software". I've had to re-design things to be less simple, in order to make them more attractive to customers, and had my staff…

      but then were never used by the actual users
That's fine, The last thing VP's or management want is an employees coming to them and telling how they "can't" do something due to lack of a feature.

Cost of not getting a job done due to lack of a feature is very high compared to cost of adding that feature. And cost of adding a new feature only when a need arises is even higher.

It is hard to predict which feature you will actually need over course of time, thus the safest bet is to have as many reasonable features as possible.

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#27

Post by symkat »

akshayubhat wrote: post #22
symkat wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's probably your Apple bias which seems to be at play here." Yes, because obviously Apple is not considered by their dominating market share of both the MP3[1] and Phone[2] sectors. Apple is also obviously a company that puts tons of knobs, dials and switches on their products to sell them like the toaster in the article and my pointing them out had nothing to do with this. Silly me, and my Apple Fangirlism. [1] h…

Again your fanboiism at play: 1: you disregard my statement about evolution of ipod from a simple to a complex interface. Your link shows 3 different types of iPod, which shows that simplicity didn't work and design had to evolve, to incorporate different needs. 2: In regards to iPhone, Blackberry dominates the market share and guess why? Because they provide a much needed functionality "QWERTY keypad", which proves…

1: You can take not getting a response as me not having a response either because I agree with you, don't care, or don't care to disagree.

2: Splitting a >60% market share with the next best being %9 below is considered a success. Which is in direct disagreement with your original statement, "success considering their market share." Additionally, if you were aiming that at Apple Mac Computers alone, they have 91% of the share of computers sold priced over $1,000[1].

2a: Your point on QWERTY keyboards on phones is complete and total conjecture and you know it. Personally, I like a keyboard on my phone, which is why I have a droid. If I had no need to ssh from my phone, there is absolutely no reason I would avoid a purely touchscreen phone.

[1] http://www.betanews.com/joewilcox/article/Apple-has-91-of-ma...

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#28

Post by Altreus »

felxh wrote: post #18
symkat wrote: post #2

I suppose a counter-argument to this would be... anything Apple makes? Their non-computer products generally have fewer buttons on them than comparable phones/mp3 players. The MiFi that was just being raved about earlier today also only has an on/off button. Perhaps those are exceptions, rather than the rule. What makes those exceptional, though?

well it certainly might explain the "overpriced toy" reaction to their products from some people

I totally had an awesome picture to link to here to prove my point but I can't find it.

Suffice to say that Apple pricing their bog-standard SATA hard disks at 39 cents a gigabyte (a high market price being 19 cents), and a similar attitude to the rest of their perfectly average hardware, explains the "overpriced toy" reaction to their products.

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#29

Post by kentnl »

symkat wrote: post #2

I suppose a counter-argument to this would be... anything Apple makes? Their non-computer products generally have fewer buttons on them than comparable phones/mp3 players. The MiFi that was just being raved about earlier today also only has an on/off button. Perhaps those are exceptions, rather than the rule. What makes those exceptional, though?

Obviously, the VCR your ${parent} keeps asking you to program for them was purchased because it was more complicated, and that silly microwave they have with a big sign on the power socket not to turn it off at the wall, or you'll have to re-set the clock before you can microwave anything, and you need to type in the exact number of minutes and seconds for every single cook time, because you needed to cook for 20 minutes and 7 seconds!

( Sorry, poor and overcomplicated Microwave UI design is one of my Pet Peeves, I don't see many people doing it right, and lots of crap organizations doing it the wrong way yielding horrible nightmare contraptions even intelligent people can't get to do anything practical because somebody lost the manual at some stage )

Re: Simplicity Is Highly Overrated

#30

Post by wreel »

jacquesm wrote: post #10

I think it is possible to have a complicated product that is made easy to use and has extra features that get 'exposed' over time for your power users to find, preferably just when they need them the first time. Complexity per-se has nothing to do with it, (over) complex problems fail just as fast as overly simplified products. The trick is to match what your application is offering to the user in such a way that the…

I think you're side stepping the point of the article which wasn't that he was arguing for complexity in design but that the general public has a tendency to "worship false images" as Don would put it. That is the impulse when comparing two products side by side in a department store setting is to go with the one with more knobbies and twiddlies. Sure there may be one with simpler interface but the purchaser may equate that to "less capable".

It's all related to marketing.

A way that sellers of products that do have simpler interfaces get around this is either with lots of literature or very thorough product demos. People here may want to use the Apple brand as counter examples but that's wrong. Instead of complexity in the design of the product the complexity is in use. Demonstrated with lavish expos and advertisements. They're still selling you on capability.

But not every product manufacturer has accessibility to that kind of marketing prowess. The best you can hope for your widget in the department store is built into your product. And that means the product has to sell itself. In that case, as a designer for that widget, it would be good to know that simplicity is overrated.

- By the way. You should really pick up "The Design of Everyday Things" by Don.

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