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All I need is a programmer

codeclimber.blogspot.com

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Re: All I need is a programmer

#21

Post by cstejerean »

Jesin wrote: post #19
Hexstream wrote: post #9

"The reason for this, I think, is that Lisp allows you to be so productive that a single person can get things done without having to work together with anyone else, and so Lisp programmers never develop the social skills needed to work effectively as a member of a team." That's IT! I just decided to quit Lisp and program in C from now on. And all this time I wondered why I have no social skills... But now everything…

If this is your goal, C isn't the best choice either. I'd suggest Java or C#.

C is a pretty good goal. It takes a lot of effort to get anything working in C, so the only reasonable approach is to find others to collaborate with. It "forces" you into being social.

Re: All I need is a programmer

#22

Post by gruseom »

Hexstream wrote: post #9

"The reason for this, I think, is that Lisp allows you to be so productive that a single person can get things done without having to work together with anyone else, and so Lisp programmers never develop the social skills needed to work effectively as a member of a team." That's IT! I just decided to quit Lisp and program in C from now on. And all this time I wondered why I have no social skills... But now everything…

You're quoting a statement by Ron Garret which I find rather thought provoking and not at all ridiculous. But what puzzles me is, why are you quoting it here?

Re: All I need is a programmer

#23

Post by Tichy »

edw519 wrote: post #20
Tichy wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only skimmed it, but I don't think it applies. Who says those guys wanted to start a Software Company? Quote: "This is a conversation about software companies, shrinkwrap software, where the company's success or failure is directly a result of the quality of their code." Also the comparison to Brad Pitt really makes no sense. People don't go to see Brad Pitt moves because he is an x times better actor than others.…

Here's why this essay struck a nerve with me. There are certain things that 10% of the hackers I ever met could do in x amount of time that the other 90% could never do. In any amount of time. The longer I work in this field, the truer that seems. And managers have never understood that. They look at us as "person hours" to be mixed and matched to achieve their goals. I've never seen that work well. How many times ha…

But what if it doesn't matter if it takes a day or a week? And how is the business person to know? Just because Joe asks for a lot of money, are they supposed to believe that he is good?

I think you are confusing your personal experiences and situations with the situation of some business guy. They are not out to start a software company, where they will manage programmers. They just want product x build.

It is an exchangeable skill, in the same way as there are thousands of mechanics who could fix your car, or thousands of window-makers who could create a window for your house, or thousands of carpenters who can create a cupboard to your specifications.

If you drive your car into some mechanics garage, you are not expecting to manage that mechanic. You just want your car fixed.

Re: All I need is a programmer

#24

Post by RichardPrice »

ssharp wrote: post #3

This same story seems to get rehashed weekly here. Without insight into what the business is, you can't really judge how important a programmer is. For some, it's paramount. For others, it's not as important. Interestingly enough, a lot of people get stuck in some sort of weird trap: Their idea is worth so much to them that they won't give up equity yet their idea is worth so little that they won't invest in it.

That's a very interesting paradoxical situation you have pointed out - the weird trap, I mean.

Re: All I need is a programmer

#26

Post by vikram »

The lack of cash for the gig isn't really the problem here. I think the problem is that the person asking for work is poor at business.

If he is expecting this guy to work for free, he should make him feel super important, ask for advice and not really ask him to do the work.

Assuming that someone else has nothing else going on and will spend their evenings/weekends on your project for free, just points out that he doesn't have a clue about how people work.

My advice to anyone looking to hire a programmer for free, try a subtle form of flattery and see if you can get a good deal. Alternatively, learn programming.

Re: All I need is a programmer

#28

Post by Hexstream »

gruseom wrote: post #22
Hexstream wrote: post #9

"The reason for this, I think, is that Lisp allows you to be so productive that a single person can get things done without having to work together with anyone else, and so Lisp programmers never develop the social skills needed to work effectively as a member of a team." That's IT! I just decided to quit Lisp and program in C from now on. And all this time I wondered why I have no social skills... But now everything…

You're quoting a statement by Ron Garret which I find rather thought provoking and not at all ridiculous. But what puzzles me is, why are you quoting it here?

It was just a joke in good earth. But now I see how you read it.

I'll try to double-check my post for ambiguïties next time.

Re: All I need is a programmer

#29

Post by wanorris »

wumi wrote: post #25

Programming is not the only profession where this takes place

In particular in the web industry, there's a lot of programmers who have "done all the hard stuff" and now just need a designer to "make it look pretty,"despite the fact that good design with a focus on usability is likely to change the structure and flow of the application.

I mention it, because I've caught myself thinking this way.

Re: All I need is a programmer

#30

Post by yters »

jeroen wrote: post #13
raganwald wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe not a post, but I know several entrepreneurs who say--on a regular basis--"All I need is a sales guy," "All I need is a marketing guy," and/or "All I need is a bizdev guy." In each case, they believe that the hard part of their business is the part they are doing/have done, and teh sales/marketing/bizdev is a slam dunk.

We all misjudge that which we don't understand. And if we did understand, we could do it ourselves.

Good point, too bad nested comments don't float the original comment up higher.
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