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Icelandic language battles threat of 'digital extinction'

theguardian.com

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Re: Icelandic language battles threat of 'digital extinction'

#21

Post by powercf »

radagast wrote: post #7

This has been discussed for as long as I remember myself (am 30 now). First it was the influence of english in TV (we only dub childrens shows and movies). I came unscattered from my youth and really doubt that my children won't be as good or better at icelandic than me. Everyone has learned icelandic, basic danish and advanced english at age 16. From the age 16-20 majority of kids add a fourth language which is eith…

My problem is that, as time goes by, English use will become more common, and Icelandic less. The spread of the English language (e.g. the children in the article who '“know what the word is” for something they are being shown on the flashcard, but not in Icelandic.') is accompanied by the spread of US culture (TV, film, music). While US culture isn't neccessarily better or worse than any other, I get a lot of enjoyment from visiting places where English isn't spoken, and where one can see different traditions, greetings etc. I see the spread of the English language a step in the Americanization of the world, which is a shame.

Re: Icelandic language battles threat of 'digital extinction'

#24

Post by ocschwar »

krapp wrote: post #12
mbid wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we really want billions of people who all talk the same, think the same, and have the same values? I don't see how that could possibly be a good thing. The world is already bleeding ridiculous amounts of accumulated knowledge and wisdom. It may be true that the average person today knows and understands more about the world than the average person in the past, but we all know the same things today.

Just because people share the same language, it doesn't mean they think the same, or share the same values. Many people around the world speak English, but they don't become culturally American or British because of it.

I used to think that.

Then an Englishman asked for my John Hancock.

Re: Icelandic language battles threat of 'digital extinction'

#25

Post by torgard »

radagast wrote: post #7

This has been discussed for as long as I remember myself (am 30 now). First it was the influence of english in TV (we only dub childrens shows and movies). I came unscattered from my youth and really doubt that my children won't be as good or better at icelandic than me. Everyone has learned icelandic, basic danish and advanced english at age 16. From the age 16-20 majority of kids add a fourth language which is eith…

Similar experience, but with Faroese. You'll be hard-pressed to find people who don't speak Faroese, Danish and English. Fourth language, not so much, but yeah.

However, I do think we Faroese are too bad at Faroese grammar.

Side-note, because we were occupied by the British during WW2, a _lot_ of British slang has been incorporated and turned Faroese, and a lot of regular English words turned into Faroese slang.

Re: Icelandic language battles threat of 'digital extinction'

#26

Post by sotojuan »

krapp wrote: post #12
mbid wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we really want billions of people who all talk the same, think the same, and have the same values? I don't see how that could possibly be a good thing. The world is already bleeding ridiculous amounts of accumulated knowledge and wisdom. It may be true that the average person today knows and understands more about the world than the average person in the past, but we all know the same things today.

Just because people share the same language, it doesn't mean they think the same, or share the same values. Many people around the world speak English, but they don't become culturally American or British because of it.

Toute l’expérience d’un individu est construit sur le plan de son langage.

[An individual’s experience is built entirely in terms of his language.]

Re: Icelandic language battles threat of 'digital extinction'

#27

Post by dsr_ »

erfgh wrote: post #8

This is bullshit and you can mostly write the same article for any non-English language.

I'm pretty sure French doesn't think of itself as dying. Or Spanish. Or Portuguese, even if many more people speak it in Brazil than in Portugal. Mandarin, Hindi, Arabic, Russian, Japanese, Malay, Korean -- English may be the most popular second language for all these populations, but there's lots of new work being produced in all of them, and thriving populations who use them all day long.

Re: Icelandic language battles threat of 'digital extinction'

#28

Post by davidy123 »

Retric wrote: post #6
marten-de-vries wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a middle road, you know: being bilingual. To run with the Icelandic example, you'll be hard pressed to find someone who speaks it but not English. Where I live, there's also a local language (Frisian) spoken beside the 'bigger' language (Dutch). And here too, lots of people speak English. Or if not, you might get lucky with German.

That's the first half of a language dying. If everyone speaks Dutch and it's on signs and menus etc then learning Frisian has limited value.

The local language is likely to have a lot of associations and nuance. Common languages can lead to cultural collapse; the world becomes less rich. "Chinglish" (bad translations) are one extreme outcome of this, but it's not always funny or trivial.

Re: Icelandic language battles threat of 'digital extinction'

#29

Post by graeme »

smitherfield wrote: post #15
marten-de-vries wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a middle road, you know: being bilingual. To run with the Icelandic example, you'll be hard pressed to find someone who speaks it but not English. Where I live, there's also a local language (Frisian) spoken beside the 'bigger' language (Dutch). And here too, lots of people speak English. Or if not, you might get lucky with German.

But is it a sustainable road? French-Canadians have been complaining for many years that Montreal's "bilingual" neighborhoods become English-speaking in a decade or so, and "French-speaking" neighborhoods become bilingual. And this is despite extensive government efforts to encourage or even enforce the use of French. You can see the same trends in Catalonia, Wales, Ireland, etc. Where the government intervenes in th…

Strasbourg was French from 1681, then German in 1871, then French in 1918. Then only briefly German in WWII.

So it wasn't German very long, only 50 years.

As for Montreal, it will be interesting to see how the city evolves. I notice more English in my neighbourhood than when I moved in (8 years ago). But, there is also more French in the old anglo neighbourhoods of the west.

One factor is that a lot of "allophones" are perfectly fluent in both English and French. When you add in the francophone tendency to switch to English when dealing with anyone who shows even a whiff of not being a native francophone, a lot of francophone majority neighbourhoods may see English conversation.

(I'm perfectly fluent and speak French in public. But for the life of me I can't francophone friends to speak French. I think they all want to practice their English. Also, the Quebecois that care about Anglicization probably don't move to urban montreal)

Re: Icelandic language battles threat of 'digital extinction'

#30

Post by oh_sigh »

sotojuan wrote: post #26
krapp wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because people share the same language, it doesn't mean they think the same, or share the same values. Many people around the world speak English, but they don't become culturally American or British because of it.

Toute l’expérience d’un individu est construit sur le plan de son langage. [An individual’s experience is built entirely in terms of his language.]

Is it?
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