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HP Holds Navy Network ‘Hostage’ for $3.3 Billion

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Re: HP Holds Navy Network ‘Hostage’ for $3.3 Billion

#21

Post by Tamerlin »

bmelton wrote: post #5

I work for the federal government, and I work with (but not for) HP/EDS in the building, as they supply the majority of infrastructure services to this agency (including Active Directory, DNS, core and edge network, etc.) While HP is a competitor to me here, we work cooperatively more than not, and I've never had an issue where another contractor was the impediment. Conflicting, or impossible-to-meet requirements are…

My experience was similar. We tended to receive implementation directives that frequently contradicted the functional requirements, and when we requested clarification got no response. The government tended to make exceedingly expensive purchases based on politics (my guess is that there were kickbacks involved) that were entirely inappropriate for the project, yet we had to use them. And our advice rarely had any effect on decisions, as far as I could tell.

So far, I've only worked for one organization that was genuinely more convoluted, irrational, and technologically backward than the government... and that was amazon.

Re: HP Holds Navy Network ‘Hostage’ for $3.3 Billion

#22

Post by gvb »

hristov wrote: post #16

That is why government agencies should always insist on open source everything. It may seem expensive in the beginning, but it will end up cheaper in the end because you will always have a choice for alternative contractors if you are unhappy with one.

Open source is the answer to a different question.

The article is talking about configuring networks, providing hardware, providing computer management services, etc. The software involved in the services that are being discussed is pretty incidental, the way IBM's use of linux is pretty incidental to what IBM sells.

As one of the articles primary examples, the Navy does not have the network diagrams and configuration information for their network. Even if they used open source routers, they currently do not have the information they would need to configure those routers.

Re: HP Holds Navy Network ‘Hostage’ for $3.3 Billion

#23

Post by jrockway »

This may be a bit too cynical, so consider this comment entertainment instead of insight.

But do you ever notice how things that please both political parties tend to be the worst, like the DMCA? Well, that explains this. The Republicans want a huge military. The Democrats want to give a ton of money to the private sector.

The compromise? Outsourcing the military's IT. Bigger navy == bigger IT contract == both sides content.

Re: HP Holds Navy Network ‘Hostage’ for $3.3 Billion

#24

Post by chc »

jrockway wrote: post #23

This may be a bit too cynical, so consider this comment entertainment instead of insight. But do you ever notice how things that please both political parties tend to be the worst, like the DMCA? Well, that explains this. The Republicans want a huge military. The Democrats want to give a ton of money to the private sector. The compromise? Outsourcing the military's IT. Bigger navy == bigger IT contract == both sides…

I think the desire to give lots of money to the private sector is more of a Republican thing than a Democrat thing. Republicans tend to be "Rah rah, free market, lower taxes, starve the beast," whereas the Democrats are more comfortable openly advocating for public-sector services.

Re: HP Holds Navy Network ‘Hostage’ for $3.3 Billion

#25

Post by michaelhalligan »

iuhjytgfbnjhmk wrote: post #9
michaelhalligan wrote: post #4

Huh? EDS still holds this contract? I remember EDS lost a large ($1bn+) contract 8 or 9 years ago when it botched up a PC refresh so badly that by the time they started installing new desktops, they were 6-7 years old. I don't fully blame EDS, having interned there a long time ago, they're just a huge inefficient corporation hired by a larger, more inefficient government.

Anderson balls up a contract, so you award the next one to EDS, they balls up and you give the next one to CapGemini. When they balls up you give the next contract to Anderson... See - there is genuine competition for contracts.

I had a friend who was working for a small local SF consulting shop making $75/hour. The consulting shop was getting paid $150/hour. They got the job through a contract recruiting firm that got paid $200/hour, and EDS was getting paid something like $400/hour, all to do some crystal reporting work. It was quite bizarre.

Re: HP Holds Navy Network ‘Hostage’ for $3.3 Billion

#26

Post by hristov »

gvb wrote: post #22
hristov wrote: post #16

That is why government agencies should always insist on open source everything. It may seem expensive in the beginning, but it will end up cheaper in the end because you will always have a choice for alternative contractors if you are unhappy with one.

Open source is the answer to a different question. The article is talking about configuring networks, providing hardware, providing computer management services, etc. The software involved in the services that are being discussed is pretty incidental, the way IBM's use of linux is pretty incidental to what IBM sells. As one of the articles primary examples, the Navy does not have the network diagrams and configuratio…

Well, I had a more holistic open source agreement in mind. In such an agreement any configuration information should be included with the source code. Also any custom hardware should also be specified and all rights provided as part of the agreement.

Regardless of how incidental the software is, if the software and configuration is all open source, then it is always possible for a talented engineer or group thereof to pick up the services where the previous contractor leaves.

Re: HP Holds Navy Network ‘Hostage’ for $3.3 Billion

#28

Post by noonespecial »

bmelton wrote: post #5

I work for the federal government, and I work with (but not for) HP/EDS in the building, as they supply the majority of infrastructure services to this agency (including Active Directory, DNS, core and edge network, etc.) While HP is a competitor to me here, we work cooperatively more than not, and I've never had an issue where another contractor was the impediment. Conflicting, or impossible-to-meet requirements are…

Every government system that actually does anything that I've ever come in contact with looks the same. A few racks of windows servers crammed with expensive consulting-ware all chosen and acquired using the "strippers and steak" purchasing method... and one or two 'unauthorized' linux servers actually doing the work.

I guess its good that our computers model the human structures in government. At least we're consistent.

Re: HP Holds Navy Network ‘Hostage’ for $3.3 Billion

#29

Post by niels_olson »

jarin wrote: post #18

NMCI is the worst thing to happen to the Navy (in my opinion). When I was in the Navy, we managed our own servers and infrastructure on a 1000-workstation aircraft carrier network, including HP-UX/Sybase servers, multiple domain controllers, Exchange servers, rotating tape backups, and Alcatel backbone switches. We only called contractors when we couldn't figure out a problem (which was pretty rare with the team we h…

I was in the Navy well before NMCI, saw it come in, left for a while (med school), then came back just in time to see it go. I'm looking forward to it being gone. That said, I have found non-IT military folk at all ranks daily making wildly inaccurate statements about NMCI policy and then forming their own policies based on their own statements. The contracts are available online with about 5 minutes of searching, and they're remarkably readable.

I have also seen a small (frigate) shipboard IT organization before NMCI essentially go belly-up when an electrical accident (because, you know, it's a freaking warship underway, not a server farm in Sheboigan) cooked the server and there were no functional backups. Managing your own IT in a small organization can be a major crap shoot.

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