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Hey Gruber, what about the users?

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Re: Hey Gruber, what about the users?

#21

Post by drivebyacct2 »

"My perspective is that of an iPad user. I like the damned thing. But I feel like a pawn, and I don't like that."

I'm tired of seeing people complain about this. Apple has made their intentions clear from iPhone 1, day one. You are buying a read-only pass into the walled garden. If you don't like it, pick up a Galaxy Tab on VZW (arguably a better network) or wait for Motorola's dual core tablet later this year running the more tablet-centric Gingerbread. But cut it out complaining "as a user" about Apple.

Also: "Maybe if (hint hint) Gruber had comments on his blog, his minions wouldn't feel the need to vent on the sites he points to? Just a thought."

...this again? Really?

Re: Hey Gruber, what about the users?

#22

Post by ergo98 »

tjogin wrote: post #7

Even if Apple wanted the iPad to support flash, how could they? A working mobile flash implementation does not exist, certainly wasn't even close to existing at the time the iPad was released, and the lack of it doesn't seem to have affected sales. How could you possibly complain that the iPad doesn't support software that doesn't exist? Let's postpone this discussion until when Adobe can show off a flash runtime tha…

"A working mobile flash implementation does not exist"

EDIT The TL;DR; version is, at knowing acceptance of downvotes: denial isn't just a river in Egypt; It's also the clutchings of the Mac Faithful who are going to go down parroting the Flash rhetoric straight from the hands of Jobs.

Flash works brilliantly on my Nexus One for those few times I need to use it. I've used it to watch Escapist videos, to order a pizza at a local pizza place that inexplicably uses Flash for the entirety of their site, and on and on. 99% of the time it sits disabled, but when there's the little box and I actually want or need to see the content, I tap it and voila, a few seconds later I have it.

Of course not all Flash works (though I come across very little that doesn't perhaps because I consider it an emergency technology, not the foundation of my experience). Some instances rely upon keyboard input, or hover events, or other interaction mechanisms that I can't duplicate on my smartphone.

Which is exactly like many HTML sites (where keyboard, hover, and drag-drop functionality that can't be duplicated on a mobile device is often used. I've yet to find an HTML5 demo game that actually works). Do we say HTML is failed because not every site works perfectly on mobile devices? Abandon the whole platform and embrace the App Store?

Re: Hey Gruber, what about the users?

#23

Post by tjogin »

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #21

"My perspective is that of an iPad user. I like the damned thing. But I feel like a pawn, and I don't like that." I'm tired of seeing people complain about this. Apple has made their intentions clear from iPhone 1, day one. You are buying a read-only pass into the walled garden. If you don't like it, pick up a Galaxy Tab on VZW (arguably a better network) or wait for Motorola's dual core tablet later this year runnin…

Dave should be able to sympathize with John, given that he's deleted quite a few comments off of that page (no cussing either).

Re: Hey Gruber, what about the users?

#24

Post by ErikD »

tjogin wrote: post #7

Even if Apple wanted the iPad to support flash, how could they? A working mobile flash implementation does not exist, certainly wasn't even close to existing at the time the iPad was released, and the lack of it doesn't seem to have affected sales. How could you possibly complain that the iPad doesn't support software that doesn't exist? Let's postpone this discussion until when Adobe can show off a flash runtime tha…

Android phones support flash these days [1]. I have been told it works pretty good.

1: http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/android-froyo-with-so...

Re: Hey Gruber, what about the users?

#25

Post by drivebyacct2 »

tjogin wrote: post #23
drivebyacct2 wrote: post #21

"My perspective is that of an iPad user. I like the damned thing. But I feel like a pawn, and I don't like that." I'm tired of seeing people complain about this. Apple has made their intentions clear from iPhone 1, day one. You are buying a read-only pass into the walled garden. If you don't like it, pick up a Galaxy Tab on VZW (arguably a better network) or wait for Motorola's dual core tablet later this year runnin…

Dave should be able to sympathize with John, given that he's deleted quite a few comments off of that page (no cussing either).

What were the comments about? Why were they deleted? Critical of the author, content, etc?

Re: Hey Gruber, what about the users?

#26

Post by drivebyacct2 »

ergo98 wrote: post #22
tjogin wrote: post #7

Even if Apple wanted the iPad to support flash, how could they? A working mobile flash implementation does not exist, certainly wasn't even close to existing at the time the iPad was released, and the lack of it doesn't seem to have affected sales. How could you possibly complain that the iPad doesn't support software that doesn't exist? Let's postpone this discussion until when Adobe can show off a flash runtime tha…

"A working mobile flash implementation does not exist" EDIT The TL;DR; version is, at knowing acceptance of downvotes: denial isn't just a river in Egypt; It's also the clutchings of the Mac Faithful who are going to go down parroting the Flash rhetoric straight from the hands of Jobs. Flash works brilliantly on my Nexus One for those few times I need to use it. I've used it to watch Escapist videos, to order a pizza…

I agree, flash can work well. Google was foolish to not set the "Enable Plugins" to "On Demand" though.

Re: Hey Gruber, what about the users?

#27

Post by drivebyacct2 »

avar wrote: post #12

I don't own an iPad but I think Apple's non-support of Flash is great. It's shipping the first major web browser in the last decade that's explicitly not supporting flash. So it's helping to make Flash more irrelevant every day, by forcing developers to finally consider that delivering their content in some executable binary blob isn't a reasonable thing to do on the web. Thanks, Apple!

Browsers don't support flash, the Flash plugin for a browser supports flash. It's not about the browser, it's about the platform or the operating system.

A Flash SWF is not an executable binary blob. Many parts of the SWF spec are even open.

Re: Hey Gruber, what about the users?

#28

Post by jfno67 »

avar wrote: post #12

I don't own an iPad but I think Apple's non-support of Flash is great. It's shipping the first major web browser in the last decade that's explicitly not supporting flash. So it's helping to make Flash more irrelevant every day, by forcing developers to finally consider that delivering their content in some executable binary blob isn't a reasonable thing to do on the web. Thanks, Apple!

The point Dave makes in the original post, is that he sees new flash content being produced, so the boycott is not working. I think it is more productive to focus on promoting html5 to make flash irrelevant.

Re: Hey Gruber, what about the users?

#29

Post by drivebyacct2 »

raganwald wrote: post #6

I wish Dave would read and abide by "How to Disagree." The wisecrack about Gruber's minions takes a reasonable discussion and reduces it to Fox-Newsworthy labeling and ad hominem rhetoric. People who agree with Gruber are cut from much the same cloth as people who want the choice of whether to run Flash.

"People who agree with Gruber are cut from much the same cloth as people who want the choice of whether to run Flash."

Can't say I understand your sentiment. They are ideologically incompatible and driven by polar interests.

Re: Hey Gruber, what about the users?

#30

Post by schultzor »

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #27
avar wrote: post #12

I don't own an iPad but I think Apple's non-support of Flash is great. It's shipping the first major web browser in the last decade that's explicitly not supporting flash. So it's helping to make Flash more irrelevant every day, by forcing developers to finally consider that delivering their content in some executable binary blob isn't a reasonable thing to do on the web. Thanks, Apple!

Browsers don't support flash, the Flash plugin for a browser supports flash. It's not about the browser, it's about the platform or the operating system. A Flash SWF is not an executable binary blob. Many parts of the SWF spec are even open.

Does the openness of the spec even matter when effectively only one party can write and ship a usable plugin for it?
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