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An employer asked me to do a HackerRank test. Here's my alternative proposal.

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Re: An employer asked me to do a HackerRank test. Here's my alternative proposal.

#21

Post by sdoering »

hashkb wrote: post #3

No, no, no. They have the job, you want it. That email comes across so arrogant that I would expect even the newest hiring manager to laugh and delete. Without even addressing the sour grapes attitude about coding interviews, the sheer arrogance with which you try to dictate someone else's process is a red flag in the first place. That, plus the fact that you're refusing to do what they want, is really bad for your c…

> They have the job, you want it. Are you sure? If they have shitty processes and use shitty tools to evaluate the quality of an applicant - I am not sure, that they have the job someone wants.

This isn't a one way street. As an employer I want the best possible candidate. I want someone who can think on their feet and is able to say no to unreasonable demands. I want someone that brings his own perspective to the table.

If I want a code monkey - I would advertise for one.

And as an employee I want an employer who values my brain and my problem solving ability in complex and ever changing environments more then arbitrarily idiotic coding tests (or in my case analytics problems removed from anything resembling real world situations).

I am glad to be working at a place that enables me to have both (as a colleague sitting in talks with applicants and being an employee).

Re: An employer asked me to do a HackerRank test. Here's my alternative proposal.

#22

Post by Evansbee »

hashkb wrote: post #4
collyw wrote: post #2

Nice, I wish i had a bit more code to show off on github, as most of my stuff is in house. Hackerrank is such a crap way to evaluate engineers.

Hiring managers need to be sure they're being fair to everyone. How can they do that looking at your side projects? They need a way to compare apples to apples.

But hiring and the work force AREN'T fair. My performance review, salary increases, and bonus aren't based on some normalized criteria, we're rewarded for going above and beyond.

Even on the surface "fairness" isn't really the objective, because there are going to be different hiring managers and interviewers throughout the whole process. The salary negotiation isn't going to be "fair" in this way.

I'd rather have someone who had a rich github history and a record of real accomplishment than someone who had none but could produce a good hacker rank score. Hiring is the most important thing that we do as managers, I'd be selling myself short if I didn't take it all into consideration.

Re: An employer asked me to do a HackerRank test. Here's my alternative proposal.

#24

Post by an_d_rew »

hashkb wrote: post #4
collyw wrote: post #2

Nice, I wish i had a bit more code to show off on github, as most of my stuff is in house. Hackerrank is such a crap way to evaluate engineers.

Hiring managers need to be sure they're being fair to everyone. How can they do that looking at your side projects? They need a way to compare apples to apples.

Regarding the need to compare “apples to apples”:

(Manager, rummaging through an apple barrel)

“... apple ...” (toss)

“... apple ...” (toss)

“... apple ...” (toss)

“... fist-sized lump of uncut diamond ...” (pause... toss)

“... apple ...” (toss)

(Days later)

“Yeah, I found 2-3 decent looking apples... most are pretty bruised, though...”

Re: An employer asked me to do a HackerRank test. Here's my alternative proposal.

#25

Post by sdoering »

hashkb wrote: post #10
rainforest wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it depends, some employers might appreciate being showed evidence that the process they've decided on isn't suitable for reasons they were unable to see.

I've been on a few hiring panels and designed a few interviews in my day. I've never met anyone who likes being told their interview is broken. Especially not from a candidate (who failed / is refusing to do it.)

I would hire them. They show me, that they think beyond their current task and are able to see the bigger picture.

Or at least I would consider hiring them if the rest does fit (culture and other such squishy interpersonal things).

Re: An employer asked me to do a HackerRank test. Here's my alternative proposal.

#26

Post by jacquesm »

You probably might as well have written 'no' for all the difference it will make, but I have to commend you on the carefully worded and actionable bits in your reply.

If I were the prospective employer I'd probably write you back that before we will invest into looking at your production we kindly ask you once again to jump over the low bar that was set for all applicants. Then again, if I were your prospective employer I'd never have used hackerrank in the first place because I feel that to expose a potential recruit to a third party service would be a breach of confidentiality and besides I feel that such services are - as you correctly identify - ill suited to picking the people I'd want to work with.

It's akin to a luxury fizz-buzz test.

Re: An employer asked me to do a HackerRank test. Here's my alternative proposal.

#27

Post by angelsl »

hashkb wrote: post #10
rainforest wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it depends, some employers might appreciate being showed evidence that the process they've decided on isn't suitable for reasons they were unable to see.

I've been on a few hiring panels and designed a few interviews in my day. I've never met anyone who likes being told their interview is broken. Especially not from a candidate (who failed / is refusing to do it.)

Sounds like arrogance... on the part of the interviewer.

Re: An employer asked me to do a HackerRank test. Here's my alternative proposal.

#28

Post by xianshou »

Evaluating side projects is a perfectly valid way to document a software engineer's potential value to a company, but that's not really the point of HackerRank. The purpose of HackerRank is to be a coding screen - that is, a test of basic ability to code simple algorithmic problems under moderate time pressure.

I have taken a number of HackerRank screens myself, and I have never seen one that either (a) tests beyond the coding level that would be expected of a fresh CS graduate or (b) is not vastly exceeded in scope and complexity by the coding challenges given during the onsite, which do allow considerably more flexibility and relax some of the artificial constraints.

Why attempt to circumvent a test that is meant as a slightly less trivial FizzBuzz?

Re: An employer asked me to do a HackerRank test. Here's my alternative proposal.

#29

Post by nine_k »

arcbyte wrote: post #19

Boom. Hired. If any of the candidates I've interviewed and hired had this sort of independent and outside-the-box thinking, I'd have doubled their salaries when I hired them.

Have you actually made an offer to that person?

Do you have the power to double salaries of people in your org?

Re: An employer asked me to do a HackerRank test. Here's my alternative proposal.

#30

Post by chii »

tty7 wrote: post #8

You want a personalized interview, styled exactly for you ? I would be a 'no' if i were interviewing me. You obviously can program but this makes you appear to be someone who would be difficult to work with.

For a homogenous culture of a large corporation, where each dev is a cog in the system, yes, i would agree that this person will not fit.

If i had a start-up, i would definitely give this person a good old try, because i can tell that he/she is capable enough to churn out rather advanced projects with complexity higher than just CRUD. Programmers of this type is what i'd call 10x, and one should never dismiss a 10x!

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