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Apple won't approve apps that use emojis that aren't provided by the keyboard

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Re: Apple won't approve apps that use emojis that aren't provided by the keyboard

#21

Post by wlesieutre »

cbuq wrote: post #17
sxates wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in the US, fonts can not by copyrighted [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property_protecti...

"the shapes of typefaces are not copyrightable, though the shapes may be protected by design patent ... A font (the computer code used to display the typeface) may be protected as copyright" So practically, they are copyrighted. Are you going to redesign the TrueType font from scratch?

I suppose they're not violating that, since apps aren't distributing the font file.

To whatever degree that apples to San Francisco, does it not also apply to Apple Color Emoji.ttc though?

Or does the "font shapes not copyrightable" rule not apply to fonts that have more to them than monochrome shapes?

Re: Apple won't approve apps that use emojis that aren't provided by the keyboard

#22

Post by manicdee »

kazinator wrote: post #6

> Means if your app displays emoji anywhere without a user having it typed in, it’s illegal and will be rejected. How does that work in a chat app, when the remote user has typed that in on their device?

The distinction is whether you are using the emoji as a UX asset or simply displaying it as part of the interaction between user and app.

User enters emoji in their secret diary: great. You allow selection of mood for today by displaying a range of emoji faces: bad

Re: Apple won't approve apps that use emojis that aren't provided by the keyboard

#23

Post by PhasmaFelis »

pavlov wrote: post #18
princekolt wrote: post #9

Apple's Emoji designs are copyrighted to Apple. The unicode standard only defines character codes, and what they should "generally" look like (hell, Unicode's own example designs are monochrome line drawings). So this makes complete sense. If people started using Apple's logos on the App's UI, they would respond in exactly the same way. And if they're so invested in using emojis as a "key marketing strategy", why did…

IMO you’ve been unfairly downvoted, as you’re correct that the emoji illustrations indeed are owned by Apple. The fault lies with the Unicode consortium for opening this can of worms. The standard should have been reserved for outline letter forms only. Adding a set of full-color illustrations that expands every year was madness. It’s especially bad for embedded devices that need to render text. It used to be that yo…

> IMO you’ve been unfairly downvoted, as you’re correct that the emoji illustrations indeed are owned by Apple.

The downvotes are entirely fair. Of course Apple has the legal right to arbitrarily block devs from using parts of Apple's own system fonts; that doesn't mean it's not stupid for them to exercise that right.

Re: Apple won't approve apps that use emojis that aren't provided by the keyboard

#24

Post by egypturnash »

dTal wrote: post #12
geoffpado wrote: post #3

It seemed later in the week that this got turned around: https://twitter.com/Sam0711er/status/961312320537415681

The practical upshot of such a policy would be everyone shipping their own fonts instead of using Apple's system fonts, just to be safe. This would be nothing but trouble - bloated app sizes, more ram pressure, uneven look and feel, and diminished influence on Unicode. A now-deleted tweet by a different developer facing the same issue stated that Apple apparently clarified by saying that using emoji as "media" was fo…

IIRC the general thrust of Apple's problems with the app in the now-deleted tweet was "hey you are filling a quarter of the screen with a giant emoji, they are only to be used as little images inline with text, they are not your own personal clip-art library".

Re: Apple won't approve apps that use emojis that aren't provided by the keyboard

#25

Post by trevyn »

dTal wrote: post #12
geoffpado wrote: post #3

It seemed later in the week that this got turned around: https://twitter.com/Sam0711er/status/961312320537415681

The practical upshot of such a policy would be everyone shipping their own fonts instead of using Apple's system fonts, just to be safe. This would be nothing but trouble - bloated app sizes, more ram pressure, uneven look and feel, and diminished influence on Unicode. A now-deleted tweet by a different developer facing the same issue stated that Apple apparently clarified by saying that using emoji as "media" was fo…

>Apple thinks of Unicode as their personal playground

Apple has thought of Earth as their personal playground for a long time; arrogance runs deep in their company culture. Steve could get away with it because he was arrogant and right most of the time. Today, ancient & obsolete arrogance is Apple’s biggest flaw, and is causing them to drift more and more out of touch with reality.

Re: Apple won't approve apps that use emojis that aren't provided by the keyboard

#26

Post by wlesieutre »

wlesieutre wrote: post #21
cbuq wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the shapes of typefaces are not copyrightable, though the shapes may be protected by design patent ... A font (the computer code used to display the typeface) may be protected as copyright" So practically, they are copyrighted. Are you going to redesign the TrueType font from scratch?

I suppose they're not violating that, since apps aren't distributing the font file. To whatever degree that apples to San Francisco, does it not also apply to Apple Color Emoji.ttc though? Or does the "font shapes not copyrightable" rule not apply to fonts that have more to them than monochrome shapes?

It's Apple's playground and they can enforce whatever idiotic rules they want, but I don't see how using their emoji font is any different from any other font they provide. IP rules aren't a justification for it.

All the justification they need is "We're in charge and we reserve the right to be arbitrary and capricious with app approval," but that doesn't mean I like it.

Re: Apple won't approve apps that use emojis that aren't provided by the keyboard

#27

Post by jrockway »

pavlov wrote: post #18
princekolt wrote: post #9

Apple's Emoji designs are copyrighted to Apple. The unicode standard only defines character codes, and what they should "generally" look like (hell, Unicode's own example designs are monochrome line drawings). So this makes complete sense. If people started using Apple's logos on the App's UI, they would respond in exactly the same way. And if they're so invested in using emojis as a "key marketing strategy", why did…

IMO you’ve been unfairly downvoted, as you’re correct that the emoji illustrations indeed are owned by Apple. The fault lies with the Unicode consortium for opening this can of worms. The standard should have been reserved for outline letter forms only. Adding a set of full-color illustrations that expands every year was madness. It’s especially bad for embedded devices that need to render text. It used to be that yo…

> Today you need to ship an emoji font and make sure that your font engine can render color graphics.

It seems like it goes even deeper than that. I've been noticing things like that I thought was some sort of meme that I just didn't get. It turns out, that's how "older devices" (the latest version of Chrome in my case) renders the new emoji that you can attach a gender to.

I agree that it all kind of went off the deep end. You can easily come up with an infinite number of pictures that you might want to attach to a text message, but there aren't an infinite number of codepoints. So the race to add emoji will never end, and it will never be possibly to satisfy everyone. I would have just given up. At least I can include a picture of a tanabata tree with any and all text!

Re: Apple won't approve apps that use emojis that aren't provided by the keyboard

#29

Post by innagadadavida »

trevyn wrote: post #25
dTal wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The practical upshot of such a policy would be everyone shipping their own fonts instead of using Apple's system fonts, just to be safe. This would be nothing but trouble - bloated app sizes, more ram pressure, uneven look and feel, and diminished influence on Unicode. A now-deleted tweet by a different developer facing the same issue stated that Apple apparently clarified by saying that using emoji as "media" was fo…

> Apple thinks of Unicode as their personal playground Apple has thought of Earth as their personal playground for a long time; arrogance runs deep in their company culture. Steve could get away with it because he was arrogant and right most of the time. Today, ancient & obsolete arrogance is Apple’s biggest flaw, and is causing them to drift more and more out of touch with reality.

You sound pretty arrogant yourself, is it generational?

Re: Apple won't approve apps that use emojis that aren't provided by the keyboard

#30

Post by tinus_hn »

wlesieutre wrote: post #10
princekolt wrote: post #9

Apple's Emoji designs are copyrighted to Apple. The unicode standard only defines character codes, and what they should "generally" look like (hell, Unicode's own example designs are monochrome line drawings). So this makes complete sense. If people started using Apple's logos on the App's UI, they would respond in exactly the same way. And if they're so invested in using emojis as a "key marketing strategy", why did…

Apple also owns the copyright on their San Fransisco font, but you don't see them blocking approval on apps for having text in the UI. The Roman alphabet only defines what letters should "generally" look like, so it would make sense. You want graphical representations of letters? Bring your own. Those ones are Apple's.

Emoji are images, not letters. You can’t copyright letter shapes, but you can copyright images.
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