How Myanmar forces burned, looted and killed in a remote village • Hacker News Board

Re: How Myanmar forces burned, looted and killed in a remote village

#21

Post by MarkMc » Mon, Feb 12, 2018, 1:52 PM UTC

occidentalist wrote: post #16

tptacek wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not more complicated here, in this story, where Reuters got confirmation from the Buddhist villagers who participated in the mass murder . So I'm not sure why it's important that we take into account the fact that hungry people displaced into refugee camps to escape a genocide might lie to get better rations --- which is the "other side of the story" your link reveals. The people Reuters is writing about in this…

> where Reuters got confirmation from the Buddhist villagers who participated in the mass murder What do you propose we do? There is "mass murder" all over the world, and as the major faiths go, Christianity globally is much more zealously persecuted than Islam. Why is this particular flash point of religious strife being given such a disproportionate amount of attention by Reuters and other major western media outle…

Are you suggesting that there is a bias in Western media against Christians and in favour of Muslims? That would be the first time I've heard such an accusation.

Re: How Myanmar forces burned, looted and killed in a remote village

#22

Post by fny » Mon, Feb 12, 2018, 1:53 PM UTC

inglor wrote: post #7

eimg wrote: post #6

I'm a Burmese Buddhist and strongly against both the arrest of reporters and killing unarmed people of any race/religion. But there is a hidden agenda behind such article. It used the word "Buddhist" many many times, such as Buddhist village, Buddhist neighbors, Buddhist community. The conflict is much more complicated than religious and those Buddhists mentioned are in fact local "Arakan" people. See following NY Ti…

Excuse my ignorance - but does Buddhism have a concept of "holy war" like in Christianity, Judaism and Islam? If so - are they using religious justification for the killings or is the killing purely ethnical? I don't want to spark arguments - so feel free to just post some reading material as a reply if you'd prefer to and I'll read it.

Buddhism has a fairly explicit prohibition against killing or even working for companies in the business (i.e. gunsmith.)

This goes even as far as not executing serial killers.

So this is unprecedented, which is part of why many are so shocked.

Re: How Myanmar forces burned, looted and killed in a remote village

#23

Post by falcor84 » Mon, Feb 12, 2018, 1:53 PM UTC

Santosh83 wrote: post #8

inglor wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excuse my ignorance - but does Buddhism have a concept of "holy war" like in Christianity, Judaism and Islam? If so - are they using religious justification for the killings or is the killing purely ethnical? I don't want to spark arguments - so feel free to just post some reading material as a reply if you'd prefer to and I'll read it.

No, Buddhism as a religion doesn't, although you must understand that even in Christianity and Islam, the whole notion of "Holy War" is more a smokescreen to hide the much more prosaic underlying causes for war that have always been true throughout history: land, resources, human slave labour, control in general. And it doesn't matter what justification is used for killing, really. One must look at the case from all…

I agree with everything you said, except for " it doesn't matter what justification is used for killing". I think that we should strive to understand the reasoning and aspects of human psychology/sociology that make some such "justifications" more effective than others, so we could do better at promoting peace.

Re: How Myanmar forces burned, looted and killed in a remote village

#24

Post by skywhopper » Mon, Feb 12, 2018, 2:01 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #10

eimg wrote: post #6

I'm a Burmese Buddhist and strongly against both the arrest of reporters and killing unarmed people of any race/religion. But there is a hidden agenda behind such article. It used the word "Buddhist" many many times, such as Buddhist village, Buddhist neighbors, Buddhist community. The conflict is much more complicated than religious and those Buddhists mentioned are in fact local "Arakan" people. See following NY Ti…

It's not more complicated here, in this story, where Reuters got confirmation from the Buddhist villagers who participated in the mass murder . So I'm not sure why it's important that we take into account the fact that hungry people displaced into refugee camps to escape a genocide might lie to get better rations --- which is the "other side of the story" your link reveals. The people Reuters is writing about in this…

I think the point was that "Buddhist" is probably not the most apt word to describe the people who did these things. Buddhist may well be part of their cultural or personal identities, but to most Americans and Europeans at least, I suspect that labeling these people primarily as "Buddhist" is not actually useful, and in fact in the minds of an audience mostly unfamiliar with Buddhism, much less with the society where this happened in Myanmar, such a style tends to associate Buddhism with the activities described, when there's no link. Ultimately, using "Buddhists" and "Muslims" to distinguish the two groups is just sloppy reporting.

Again, this may be an important difference between members of the two groups, but like any conflict between groups, the differences in identity are what get played up and pointed out, when the differences are rarely the _reason_ for the conflict. They're a way to manipulate people into joining a side, or to cultivate political resentment, or to explain a complex situation in a simple way for a mass audience. But such reporting only buys into and amplifies the artificial distinctions that feed the conflict. The reporters do no favors to these people by oversimplifying the situation.

Re: How Myanmar forces burned, looted and killed in a remote village

#25

Post by MarkMc » Mon, Feb 12, 2018, 2:08 PM UTC

eimg wrote: post #6

I'm a Burmese Buddhist and strongly against both the arrest of reporters and killing unarmed people of any race/religion. But there is a hidden agenda behind such article. It used the word "Buddhist" many many times, such as Buddhist village, Buddhist neighbors, Buddhist community. The conflict is much more complicated than religious and those Buddhists mentioned are in fact local "Arakan" people. See following NY Ti…

Religion is the fundamental fault line in this series of massacres, and the military has broad support from Buddhists throughout the country. In that context I don't see why 'Buddhist village, Buddhist community" is inappropriate, and certainly do not see evidence of a hidden agenda.

Re: How Myanmar forces burned, looted and killed in a remote village

#26

Post by maze-le » Mon, Feb 12, 2018, 2:13 PM UTC

occidentalist wrote: post #16

tptacek wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not more complicated here, in this story, where Reuters got confirmation from the Buddhist villagers who participated in the mass murder . So I'm not sure why it's important that we take into account the fact that hungry people displaced into refugee camps to escape a genocide might lie to get better rations --- which is the "other side of the story" your link reveals. The people Reuters is writing about in this…

> where Reuters got confirmation from the Buddhist villagers who participated in the mass murder What do you propose we do? There is "mass murder" all over the world, and as the major faiths go, Christianity globally is much more zealously persecuted than Islam. Why is this particular flash point of religious strife being given such a disproportionate amount of attention by Reuters and other major western media outle…

Note, that you are not beeing downvoted because of the issue you are trying to focus on (religious persecution is a topic worth its own consideration no matter what flavour of religion or lack thereof), but because you are trying to relativize genocide with whataboutism.

Re: How Myanmar forces burned, looted and killed in a remote village

#27

Post by yorwba » Mon, Feb 12, 2018, 2:16 PM UTC

fny wrote: post #22

inglor wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excuse my ignorance - but does Buddhism have a concept of "holy war" like in Christianity, Judaism and Islam? If so - are they using religious justification for the killings or is the killing purely ethnical? I don't want to spark arguments - so feel free to just post some reading material as a reply if you'd prefer to and I'll read it.

Buddhism has a fairly explicit prohibition against killing or even working for companies in the business (i.e. gunsmith.) This goes even as far as not executing serial killers. So this is unprecedented, which is part of why many are so shocked.

Almost all religions have prohibitions against killing; almost all adherents ignore religious rules whenever they would require acting against their immediate self-interest.

Buddhists are no exception. Sad as it may be, such atrocities are not unprecedented and have accompanied Buddhism throughout its history; just as they have accompanied any other faith.

If you are interested, the book "Buddhist Warfare" collects a few interesting essays on the topic: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0195394844

Re: How Myanmar forces burned, looted and killed in a remote village

#28

Post by idoubtit » Mon, Feb 12, 2018, 2:17 PM UTC

skywhopper wrote: post #24

tptacek wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not more complicated here, in this story, where Reuters got confirmation from the Buddhist villagers who participated in the mass murder . So I'm not sure why it's important that we take into account the fact that hungry people displaced into refugee camps to escape a genocide might lie to get better rations --- which is the "other side of the story" your link reveals. The people Reuters is writing about in this…

I think the point was that "Buddhist" is probably not the most apt word to describe the people who did these things. Buddhist may well be part of their cultural or personal identities, but to most Americans and Europeans at least, I suspect that labeling these people primarily as "Buddhist" is not actually useful, and in fact in the minds of an audience mostly unfamiliar with Buddhism, much less with the society wher…

What other word would be more appropriate?

The GO suggested "Arakan people", but that would imply that Rohingya are not inhabitants of Arakan, which would be plainly wrong and politically biased. For the same reason "Arakanese villagers" is not possible. "Non-Rohingya" is unambiguous, but not suitable for many reasons.

Moreover, some Buddhist monks had public preaches violently against Muslims, so the religion played a role in this conflict.

Lastly, if you open any history book about the last world war, you'll read about "German" soldiers committing crimes against Jews. They did not commit these because they were Germans, nor did every German from these years bear responsibility for these, but the word is still appropriate.

Re: How Myanmar forces burned, looted and killed in a remote village

#29

Post by jonatanheyman » Mon, Feb 12, 2018, 2:27 PM UTC

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #12

I understand informing myself of the world events, for sake of a better education and world citizen. But what is there I can do from the Midwest US? There's not too damn much I can do. Post it on Facebook? It'll be drowned out the 80% other party political issues of the week. Give them money? I can't guarantee it'll get to the right place (or me deemed terrorist). Feels bitterweet honestly. Horrible situation, and th…

I totally get your frustration. One thing you could do is to write to your elected officials, and urge them to press for American and international sanctions agains Myanmar.

Re: How Myanmar forces burned, looted and killed in a remote village

#30

Post by crankylinuxuser » Mon, Feb 12, 2018, 2:37 PM UTC

jonatanheyman wrote: post #29

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #12

I understand informing myself of the world events, for sake of a better education and world citizen. But what is there I can do from the Midwest US? There's not too damn much I can do. Post it on Facebook? It'll be drowned out the 80% other party political issues of the week. Give them money? I can't guarantee it'll get to the right place (or me deemed terrorist). Feels bitterweet honestly. Horrible situation, and th…

I totally get your frustration. One thing you could do is to write to your elected officials, and urge them to press for American and international sanctions agains Myanmar.

Too true, I could write to my congresscritters. However, here in Indiana, we're pretty heavily gerrymandered. It's republicans, and r-leaning democrats.

I've written to them before regarding tech issues (net neutrality) that had direct bearing on us. I received either nothing or a form letter. Maybe it did have an impact, but it sure didn't feel like it to me.