Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Excessive DNS queries for NTP pool addresses

forum.flightradar24.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 31 posts

Re: Excessive DNS queries for NTP pool addresses

#21

Post by jryan49 »

jsmthrowaway wrote: post #18
scrollaway wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you linked something that has little to do with the subject at hand in order to take a jab at Poettering. Lame behaviour. The issue, as I remember it, is more complex than you suggest with your quip. Who is the vendor for a distributed copy of systemd, is it systemd or the distributor?

Both threads are exactly about the subject of the discussion. How does it have “little to do with the subject at hand?”

I think the context that a lot of people seem to miss is that this default was never used in practice with a real Linux distro. So in effect it was never really an issue in the real world since the default was always changed.

Re: Excessive DNS queries for NTP pool addresses

#22

Post by EtDybNuvCu »

SiempreViernes wrote: post #7
acqq wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems not, because, even later: "fr24feed appears to be doing 12 NTP queries direct to servers around the world every ten minutes, which is about three times as much load as the pool recommends and appears to be a very high load on the parts of the world where there are few volunteers running NTP servers" https://forum.flightradar24.com/threads/11042-Excessive-DNS-...

While 1.2 vs 0.4 requests per minute is indeed a factor of three, calling it "abuse" instead of something like "misconfigured" or "misuse" seems overblown. What are you going to call the initial report of thousands of requests per second then?

I see your point, but I've worked with systems which have quotas like "one read per minute" or "one network request per second". They exist, their quotas are set based on real limits, and we need to be honest about overload on our shared common resources.

Re: Excessive DNS queries for NTP pool addresses

#23

Post by Brian_K_White »

freehunter wrote: post #13
eropple wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not overblown to characterize something about a system you are told not to do "abuse". If it is misuse, it is abuse. Words mean things.

Words do in fact mean things, and that's why there's so many of them. Abuse and misuse are two similar words with distinct connotations. Abusing something means it's intentional and is causing significant harm. Misusing something means using it in a way that could be accidental or intentional, but is contrary to the way the thing should be used. I have to agree with the other person, unless this was done intentionall…

The second they said "we're not fixing that" it became conscious deliberate inconsiderate abuse. That was a typical and awful response to that bug report.

The original poster essentially pointed out some bad engineering. "it works for most people" is an utter crap response to that.

Re: Excessive DNS queries for NTP pool addresses

#24

Post by jimrandomh »

sundvor wrote: post #19
jimrandomh wrote: post #16

This sounds like a bug (or maybe two bugs), not the result of any sort of policy decision. So, before taking a combative stance and trying to shame them into fixing it, it's important to make sure the relevant information has actually reached the person who actually could fix it, and they've had some time to work!

The first post in that thread was made 2017-05-03.

Okay, but did it actually get read by the right person? It's very easy for bug reports that came in the form of forum posts to slip by unnoticed. Or noticed by tech support people who don't realize it might be worth escalating to dev.

Re: Excessive DNS queries for NTP pool addresses

#25

Post by eropple »

freehunter wrote: post #13
eropple wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not overblown to characterize something about a system you are told not to do "abuse". If it is misuse, it is abuse. Words mean things.

Words do in fact mean things, and that's why there's so many of them. Abuse and misuse are two similar words with distinct connotations. Abusing something means it's intentional and is causing significant harm. Misusing something means using it in a way that could be accidental or intentional, but is contrary to the way the thing should be used. I have to agree with the other person, unless this was done intentionall…

Send an email to misuse@example.com and explain the problem and I'm sure someone will get right on it.

Wait--you mean to tell me it's abuse@ for a reason...?

Re: Excessive DNS queries for NTP pool addresses

#26

Post by pas »

scrollaway wrote: post #17
jimktrains2 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try explaining that to Poettering. [1] [2] [1] https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2014-Au... [2] https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/437

I think you linked something that has little to do with the subject at hand in order to take a jab at Poettering. Lame behaviour. The issue, as I remember it, is more complex than you suggest with your quip. Who is the vendor for a distributed copy of systemd, is it systemd or the distributor?

Oh, they already warn for using the default: https://github.com/systemd/systemd/pull/554 (which happen to be timeX.google.com)

Re: Excessive DNS queries for NTP pool addresses

#27

Post by jimktrains2 »

jryan49 wrote: post #21
jsmthrowaway wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both threads are exactly about the subject of the discussion. How does it have “little to do with the subject at hand?”

I think the context that a lot of people seem to miss is that this default was never used in practice with a real Linux distro. So in effect it was never really an issue in the real world since the default was always changed.

Then why provide a default at all? Especially one that isn't suppose to be used publically like google's?

Re: Excessive DNS queries for NTP pool addresses

#28

Post by jryan49 »

jimktrains2 wrote: post #27
jryan49 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the context that a lot of people seem to miss is that this default was never used in practice with a real Linux distro. So in effect it was never really an issue in the real world since the default was always changed.

Then why provide a default at all? Especially one that isn't suppose to be used publically like google's?

So systemd at least compiles without manual settings, and convention over configuration trends. It would be ideal if they just setup their own NTP server for the default though. I think from a practical perspective though the whole thing was blown out of proportion.

Re: Excessive DNS queries for NTP pool addresses

#29

Post by jimktrains2 »

jryan49 wrote: post #28
jimktrains2 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why provide a default at all? Especially one that isn't suppose to be used publically like google's?

So systemd at least compiles without manual settings, and convention over configuration trends. It would be ideal if they just setup their own NTP server for the default though. I think from a practical perspective though the whole thing was blown out of proportion.

It requires a configuration file to even compile? How's that work?

Re: Excessive DNS queries for NTP pool addresses

#30

Post by [deleted] »

eropple wrote: post #25
freehunter wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Words do in fact mean things, and that's why there's so many of them. Abuse and misuse are two similar words with distinct connotations. Abusing something means it's intentional and is causing significant harm. Misusing something means using it in a way that could be accidental or intentional, but is contrary to the way the thing should be used. I have to agree with the other person, unless this was done intentionall…

Send an email to misuse@example.com and explain the problem and I'm sure someone will get right on it. Wait--you mean to tell me it's abuse@ for a reason ...?

[deleted]
Post reply on HN