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How black people still need to outwit racists in rural America

theguardian.com

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Re: How black people still need to outwit racists in rural America

#21

Post by avar »

There's a great and relevant Radiolab episode published just a few days ago. It discusses the Commerce Clause of the constitution[1].

Something I didn't know is that when the US government ended racial segregation in privately owned businesses they did so not on any sort of human rights or equality basis. Rather they argued that businesses being able to deny black clients service has a depressing effect on the economy, and is thus something the federal government can regulate under the Commerce Clause.

Today there's still people who think that was a bad call not because it ended segregation, but because it gave the government precedent to regulate other things via the Commerce Clause.

1. http://www.radiolab.org/story/radiolab-presents-more-perfect...

Re: How black people still need to outwit racists in rural America

#22

Post by greglindahl »

istjohn wrote: post #14
dang wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate the real experience in your post. But going into prejudicial generalization of your own (edit: that was before it was edited) helps nothing and is sure to create a flamewar. It may not be as bad as the prejudices discussed in the article, but it's bad enough to give us nothing but scorched earth, so it breaks the site guidelines. If you'd take those to heart when commenting here, we'd appreciate it. This…

I would hope calling cruel bigots in Missouri or anywhere else "some of the worst of humanity" is not divisive. > In 2014, a group of 15 white schoolgirls blacked up their faces for a game of football. A few months previously, as riots blazed in Ferguson after the police shooting of Michael Brown, a group of Sullivan residents, Wehmeyer’s neighbour among them, staged a KKK march through town. In as much as his commen…

Dang posting a polite comment, to which the author responded positively by editing his post, is censoring?

Excessive generalization is the problem, by the way. It's important to be careful to criticize a particular behavior without criticizing everyone in the region.

Re: How black people still need to outwit racists in rural America

#23

Post by kiliantics »

rangersanger wrote: post #5

I had never heard of sundown towns before this article and plan to read the book they link to in the article [1]. One silver lining of the last year or so for me, personally, has been a sort of awakening to the real issues that have persisted in the shadows of the US for marginalized populations. There has always been some level of awareness, but the very concrete and contemporary stories that seem to be pouring out…

The progressive bubbles are still rife with racism, it's just not as obvious. Think of stop and frisk, school district segregation, gentrification, modern day redlining, etc. "Progressive" people often still hold subtly racist views. The kind of thing you see black people point - say like in "Get Out" and "Insecure" - is completely common place, where well-meaning liberal people perpetuate racist systems.

Re: How black people still need to outwit racists in rural America

#24

Post by istjohn »

brudgers wrote: post #11
tjr225 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd tend to agree. I spent two years in KCMO even there found the stark black/white racism to be blatant (I'm white and I lived just east of Troost, actually really enjoyed it). I've left for a variety of reasons, aside from the weird race relations. For those not in the know, Troost is the major divide between the black and white regions of the city. Interestingly, these divisions seem to exist all over urban Americ…

Vi Hart and Nicki Case's Parable of the Polygons provides a model that suggests why segregation occurs even when people are willing to accept some diversity. http://ncase.me/polygons/

Yes, but the model does more to confuse than explain the problem of American racial segregation. For one, it suggests that blacks share an equal responsibility for segregation as whites. It suggests that whites and blacks are both free actors with equal power and self-determination. Neither of these are true in America, of course. Whites started out with a huge surplus of power and control over blacks, and the Civil Rights Era was the struggle of blacks for equality. Today, there continues to be a huge imbalance of power which can be observed in the wealth gap.

If one studies the history of the failed campaigns to desegregate America's schools, it's apparent that segregation continues to be something imposed on black people and not the result of mutual preferences.

I feel strongly that this model does far more harm than good as a tool to understand American racial dynamics.

Re: How black people still need to outwit racists in rural America

#25

Post by istjohn »

greglindahl wrote: post #22
istjohn wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would hope calling cruel bigots in Missouri or anywhere else "some of the worst of humanity" is not divisive. > In 2014, a group of 15 white schoolgirls blacked up their faces for a game of football. A few months previously, as riots blazed in Ferguson after the police shooting of Michael Brown, a group of Sullivan residents, Wehmeyer’s neighbour among them, staged a KKK march through town. In as much as his commen…

Dang posting a polite comment, to which the author responded positively by editing his post, is censoring? Excessive generalization is the problem, by the way. It's important to be careful to criticize a particular behavior without criticizing everyone in the region.

>Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information, on the basis that such material is considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or "inconvenient" (wikipedia)

Yes, and it effected the desired result: the speech was altered.

Re: How black people still need to outwit racists in rural America

#26

Post by Digit-Al »

ActsJuvenile wrote: post #20
dreta wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can’t make the law any more strict than it already is without sacrificing everybody’s basic rights.

It's more about setting the tone. If top figures in the government and legislature take an inclusive stance and stamp out any racists issues, populous tend to pick up on that vibe.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Good luck with that with Trump in charge of your country. No one, absolutely no one, loves black people more than Trump does /s

Re: How black people still need to outwit racists in rural America

#27

Post by sethrin »

istjohn wrote: post #25
greglindahl wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dang posting a polite comment, to which the author responded positively by editing his post, is censoring? Excessive generalization is the problem, by the way. It's important to be careful to criticize a particular behavior without criticizing everyone in the region.

>Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information, on the basis that such material is considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or "inconvenient" (wikipedia) Yes, and it effected the desired result: the speech was altered.

Yes, and this is consistent with the rules of this private forum.

Re: How black people still need to outwit racists in rural America

#28

Post by brudgers »

istjohn wrote: post #24
brudgers wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vi Hart and Nicki Case's Parable of the Polygons provides a model that suggests why segregation occurs even when people are willing to accept some diversity. http://ncase.me/polygons/

Yes, but the model does more to confuse than explain the problem of American racial segregation. For one, it suggests that blacks share an equal responsibility for segregation as whites. It suggests that whites and blacks are both free actors with equal power and self-determination. Neither of these are true in America, of course. Whites started out with a huge surplus of power and control over blacks, and the Civil…

  "Essentially, all models are wrong, 
   but some are useful" -- George Box

Re: How black people still need to outwit racists in rural America

#29

Post by istjohn »

One terribly insidious aspect to racism in America is how invisible it is to white people. We are so segregated that most white people will not learn about black people's experiences with racism organically. It's only through articles like this and cell phone footage of violent police interactions that we become aware of this cruel alternative reality so many people live in. The disconnect exists within city-limits, but so much more so across regional divides.

Re: How black people still need to outwit racists in rural America

#30

Post by viburnum »

avar wrote: post #21

There's a great and relevant Radiolab episode published just a few days ago. It discusses the Commerce Clause of the constitution[1]. Something I didn't know is that when the US government ended racial segregation in privately owned businesses they did so not on any sort of human rights or equality basis. Rather they argued that businesses being able to deny black clients service has a depressing effect on the econom…

The US Constitution is basically obsolete and terrible and you can't run a decent society without stretching it quite a bit. It does not deserve the veneration it receives.
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