Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ancient kids’ toys have been hiding in the archaeological record

sciencenews.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–29 of 29 posts

Re: Ancient kids’ toys have been hiding in the archaeological record

#21

Post by hinkley »

gxs wrote: post #19
happy-go-lucky wrote: post #7

As kids growing up in a village, my friends and I played with button whirligigs and we made them out of broken pieces of clay pots discarded by our parents: Take a piece, rub its boundary on a hard irregular surface until it is smooth and discoid, make a hole in the center (take care not to break the object), pass a thread through this hole and keep the thing at the midpoint of the thread. Hold the two ends of the th…

Interesting, our process was way simpler. Flatten a bottle cap and make two holes in it with a nail.

Ours was even lazier. Find an oversized button.

Re: Ancient kids’ toys have been hiding in the archaeological record

#22

Post by [deleted] »

gxs wrote: post #19
happy-go-lucky wrote: post #7

As kids growing up in a village, my friends and I played with button whirligigs and we made them out of broken pieces of clay pots discarded by our parents: Take a piece, rub its boundary on a hard irregular surface until it is smooth and discoid, make a hole in the center (take care not to break the object), pass a thread through this hole and keep the thing at the midpoint of the thread. Hold the two ends of the th…

Interesting, our process was way simpler. Flatten a bottle cap and make two holes in it with a nail.

[deleted]

Re: Ancient kids’ toys have been hiding in the archaeological record

#23

Post by benbreen »

Debate about whether or not artifacts are for ritual purposes always reminds me of a wonderful book by David Macaulay called "Motel of the Mysteries." [1] The publisher's description gives a good sense of it:

"It is the year 4022; all of the ancient country of Usa has been buried under many feet of detritus from a catastrophe that occurred back in 1985. Imagine, then, the excitement that Howard Carson, an amateur archeologist at best, experienced when in crossing the perimeter of an abandoned excavation site he felt the ground give way beneath him and found himself at the bottom of a shaft, which, judging from the DO NOT DISTURB sign hanging from an archaic doorknob, was clearly the entrance to a still-sealed burial chamber. Carson's incredible discoveries, including the remains of two bodies, one of then on a ceremonial bed facing an altar that appeared to be a means of communicating with the Gods and the other lying in a porcelain sarcophagus in the Inner Chamber, permitted him to piece together the whole fabric of that extraordinary civilization."

[1] Some images here: https://wearethemutants.com/2017/12/06/david-macauleys-motel...

Re: Ancient kids’ toys have been hiding in the archaeological record

#24

Post by caf »

Kids must have made those somewhat unevenly shaped jars and bowls, each easily held within a child’s hand,...

I feel a certain knowing connection with these parents of 4,000 years ago, when I imagine them also with a shelf of inexpert yet earnest pottery.

Re: Ancient kids’ toys have been hiding in the archaeological record

#25

Post by Sir_Cmpwn »

nonbel wrote: post #18
Someone wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

”it’s always for ritual reasons, rather than more mundane reasons.” In common English the definition of “ritual” is a lot more restricted than in sociology and archaeology. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritual : ”They include not only the worship rites and sacraments of organized religions and cults, but also rites of passage, atonement and purification rites, oaths of allegiance, dedication ceremonies, coronations a…

I think that point is that using current methods, future archeologists will think there was a cult that worshiped snowmen.

I think that the point is that using current methods, future laymen will look at the work of future archeologists and through a misunderstanding of their terminology will think that there was a cult that worshiped snowmen.

Re: Ancient kids’ toys have been hiding in the archaeological record

#26

Post by egypturnash »

rhn_mk1 wrote: post #5
megaman22 wrote: post #2

> “Hey, what’s this?” asks the first guy. “I dunno, probably a toy … or a religious object,” says the second. > Archaeologists have long tended to choose the second option One of the many reasons archaeology frustrates me. If you can't figure out why somebody built something in the past, its always for ritual reasons, rather than more mundane reasons. For example, I went to Chichen-Itza last week. If something happen…

In your example, the activities are not religious. However, to me, the tiny pyramids and other trinkets are a kind of modern day ritual - if something that has no clear explanation or practical purpose can be called a ritual. Let's take a moment and think: why do we carry those items home after journeys? I've observed most of the time we toss them in a drawer and smile aftre discovering them 5 years later. We place t…

Totems of memories. Put them in a drawer. Forget them. Discover them years later and savor the rush of memories it triggers of that one trip you took.

Re: Ancient kids’ toys have been hiding in the archaeological record

#27

Post by creep »

rhn_mk1 wrote: post #5
megaman22 wrote: post #2

> “Hey, what’s this?” asks the first guy. “I dunno, probably a toy … or a religious object,” says the second. > Archaeologists have long tended to choose the second option One of the many reasons archaeology frustrates me. If you can't figure out why somebody built something in the past, its always for ritual reasons, rather than more mundane reasons. For example, I went to Chichen-Itza last week. If something happen…

In your example, the activities are not religious. However, to me, the tiny pyramids and other trinkets are a kind of modern day ritual - if something that has no clear explanation or practical purpose can be called a ritual. Let's take a moment and think: why do we carry those items home after journeys? I've observed most of the time we toss them in a drawer and smile aftre discovering them 5 years later. We place t…

Irrational is not the way I'd frame rituals. There is always a reason for theSe things and the reason can be explained, which does not lie in the object of the ritual itself but the purpose. We give gifts from our travels because it tells our loved ones we were thinking about them even while we were so far away from them. It retrospectively bridges a time-space gap. We bring these objects home for ourselves for various reasons but one might be that the object somehow represents the place we were, maybe it has the look of the place, maybe it literally just acts as a physical reminder, or maybe we have a collection of those things already-- and a collection being an explorative fixation on the multitude ways that a particular type of object can express itself.

Re: Ancient kids’ toys have been hiding in the archaeological record

#28

Post by creep »

coliveira wrote: post #17
blowski wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One example I heard was that, in 1000 years, people may discover strange yellow arches and assume that they had religious significance. But what kind of significance _does_ McDonalds have in today’s society? Is going to the pub followed by burger and chips an important ritual followed by many in modern society?

Many of the things we do in modern society are ritualistic, if we want it or not. For example, the energy and money we spent in watching superhero movies and buying related literature and promotional products can clearly be described as ritualistic. Superheroes are true gods of our generation, even if we don't pray to them.

Exactly. They are representative of what we think of ourselves as human, what we could be, what is possible, and what should be. They are just as important as any deity of old. We take cues from our idols, we listen to them and often do what they do or say. We put ourselves in the world of our idols all the time.

I think we lose the significance of ritual when we try to be "rational". For me, ritual is entirely rational. Without it we'd almost be stuck in a stagnant loop, trying to rationalize all of our behaviors without actually making any definitive action because we know at the brain-level it's "just" neurons firing, it's just "feelings". Ritual is an immersion in creative processes, providing not only stability but possibility.

Re: Ancient kids’ toys have been hiding in the archaeological record

#29

Post by angmarsbane »

benbreen wrote: post #23

Debate about whether or not artifacts are for ritual purposes always reminds me of a wonderful book by David Macaulay called "Motel of the Mysteries." [1] The publisher's description gives a good sense of it: "It is the year 4022; all of the ancient country of Usa has been buried under many feet of detritus from a catastrophe that occurred back in 1985. Imagine, then, the excitement that Howard Carson, an amateur arc…

I have this book! It's delightful and absolutely introduced me to a new perspective when I was a kid.
Post reply on HN