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The Gender Earnings Gap: Evidence from Over a Million Rideshare Drivers [pdf]

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Re: The Gender Earnings Gap: Evidence from Over a Million Rideshare Drivers [pdf]

#21

Post by klipt »

pbiggar wrote: post #19
Geeek wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can it be systemic yet not societal? Like biological origins?

Yeah, I've heard women are biologically programmed to prefer earning less money. JFC, listen to yourself...

Well obviously if the choices were simply

"Push button A to get money, or push button B to get more money"

then everyone would push button B. But in reality there are other factors. Like "button B has a slightly higher chance of injuring you". Or "button B can only be pushed late at night".

It's entirely possible that people are biologically programmed to have different risk/effort/reward preference curves.

Re: The Gender Earnings Gap: Evidence from Over a Million Rideshare Drivers [pdf]

#22

Post by tenpies »

prepend wrote: post #2

This is interesting. What interventions can be made to reduce this pay gap? With the reasons in the paper, should this gap be corrected (eg, force maximum speed, pay higher for slow drivers but only gender specific, etc etc).

> What interventions can be made to reduce this pay gap?

I don't see how you could do this without rewarding inefficiency and inexperience. More efficient workers with more experience should absolutely get paid more than new workers that don't do as good a job. Our entire society is structured on this concept.

Re: The Gender Earnings Gap: Evidence from Over a Million Rideshare Drivers [pdf]

#23

Post by danjoc »

tenpies wrote: post #22
prepend wrote: post #2

This is interesting. What interventions can be made to reduce this pay gap? With the reasons in the paper, should this gap be corrected (eg, force maximum speed, pay higher for slow drivers but only gender specific, etc etc).

> What interventions can be made to reduce this pay gap? I don't see how you could do this without rewarding inefficiency and inexperience. More efficient workers with more experience should absolutely get paid more than new workers that don't do as good a job. Our entire society is structured on this concept.

>I don't see how you could do this without rewarding inefficiency and inexperience.

It's easy though. Just pay women more. Uber can take a smaller cut of your pay if you have two x chromosomes.

Another approach would be to allow passengers to chose their driver's gender. More passengers will chose female over male drivers.

Re: The Gender Earnings Gap: Evidence from Over a Million Rideshare Drivers [pdf]

#24

Post by pbiggar »

klipt wrote: post #21
pbiggar wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I've heard women are biologically programmed to prefer earning less money. JFC, listen to yourself...

Well obviously if the choices were simply "Push button A to get money, or push button B to get more money" then everyone would push button B. But in reality there are other factors. Like "button B has a slightly higher chance of injuring you". Or "button B can only be pushed late at night". It's entirely possible that people are biologically programmed to have different risk/effort/reward preference curves.

You've hit the nail on the head with "button B can only be pushed at night". If we set up society such that it's riskier for one group to access good earning potential, basically the definition of systemic bias.

To be more concrete here, if it's unsafe for women to drive uber at 2am on a Friday night because of the risk of assault, that's systemic bias (and it should be fixed).

Re: The Gender Earnings Gap: Evidence from Over a Million Rideshare Drivers [pdf]

#25

Post by sebastos »

The entire point of the paper is to show that you can observe a statistical anomaly like wage disparity whenever you compare two different populations, even when you essentially control for job effectiveness and isolate out any influence from malicious discrimination. The Uber case is being used to crystallize an example where there exists a bias in the results, and yet it is clearly not due to prejudice. It is illustrating the point that just because there is a pay-gap doesn't mean the source of the pay-gap is employers who don't properly compensate their female employees. Non-malicious systematic influences can easily cause such an effect.

And yet you still have people in here wondering what we can do about this new problem, or how this just goes to show that it's really the SYSTEM that's biased, man. All I can do is shake my head at this point.

Re: The Gender Earnings Gap: Evidence from Over a Million Rideshare Drivers [pdf]

#26

Post by klipt »

pbiggar wrote: post #24
klipt wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well obviously if the choices were simply "Push button A to get money, or push button B to get more money" then everyone would push button B. But in reality there are other factors. Like "button B has a slightly higher chance of injuring you". Or "button B can only be pushed late at night". It's entirely possible that people are biologically programmed to have different risk/effort/reward preference curves.

You've hit the nail on the head with "button B can only be pushed at night". If we set up society such that it's riskier for one group to access good earning potential, basically the definition of systemic bias. To be more concrete here, if it's unsafe for women to drive uber at 2am on a Friday night because of the risk of assault, that's systemic bias (and it should be fixed).

I don't know about violence in Ubers specifically, but in general statistically men are more likely to be the victim of violent attacks than women.

If men are simply more willing to face those risks for money than women, how do you fix that (apart from trivial theoretical solutions like "remove all violence")?

Re: The Gender Earnings Gap: Evidence from Over a Million Rideshare Drivers [pdf]

#27

Post by prepend »

pixel_fcker wrote: post #5
prepend wrote: post #2

This is interesting. What interventions can be made to reduce this pay gap? With the reasons in the paper, should this gap be corrected (eg, force maximum speed, pay higher for slow drivers but only gender specific, etc etc).

Should interventions be made to reduce the gap?

This is similar to the overall pay discrepancy between genders. It’s usually harder to find if the reason is discriminatory or not. But I have encountered people who favor pay equalization even in non-discriminatory circumstances. So I’m curious to learn more perspectives.

Re: The Gender Earnings Gap: Evidence from Over a Million Rideshare Drivers [pdf]

#28

Post by aisofteng »

danjoc wrote: post #23
tenpies wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What interventions can be made to reduce this pay gap? I don't see how you could do this without rewarding inefficiency and inexperience. More efficient workers with more experience should absolutely get paid more than new workers that don't do as good a job. Our entire society is structured on this concept.

>I don't see how you could do this without rewarding inefficiency and inexperience. It's easy though. Just pay women more. Uber can take a smaller cut of your pay if you have two x chromosomes. Another approach would be to allow passengers to chose their driver's gender. More passengers will chose female over male drivers.

That's wage discrimination and is illegal.

Re: The Gender Earnings Gap: Evidence from Over a Million Rideshare Drivers [pdf]

#29

Post by yyyyip »

little_data wrote: post #7

"Furthermore, while Uber now allows riders to tip their drivers in-app, this did not become available until June 2017, which is outside the scope of our data. We do not believe that cash tips – which were possible before in-app tipping – had a material impact on driver earnings." The study did not have any actual tip data for drivers. Tipping was always an option in Uber before June 2017, it just became mandatory for…

On the freakonomics podcast episode with the study authors, they said that on average women earn over 10 percent more than men from tips.

Re: The Gender Earnings Gap: Evidence from Over a Million Rideshare Drivers [pdf]

#30

Post by ntuch »

pbiggar wrote: post #19
Geeek wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can it be systemic yet not societal? Like biological origins?

Yeah, I've heard women are biologically programmed to prefer earning less money. JFC, listen to yourself...

Your comment is a great example of the logical fallacy:argument by ridicule. You haven't made a valid point. You re wrong. And you can prove this to yourself (if you're able) by making an attempt to address his comment directly, without ridicule.

See, he did not claim that women want less money. He claimed (and he's right - and you're not even remotely able to challenge this, and you burn with anger at your failure, because it destroys your entire worldview, and deep down, you know it) that men and women are different.

I dare you to address his actual point. I dare you.

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