The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery • Hacker News Board

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery

#21

Post by bfuller » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 10:39 PM UTC

mrguyorama wrote: post #2

The thing that upsets me most about self checkouts is just how artificially slowed down they are I used to be a cashier and bagger at a local supermarket. We were expected to be able to be able to keep up a pace from 20-30 scans per minute, including handling the money, counting change, etc, and baggers were expected to keep up, no matter the size of the order. Meanwhile I struggle to get self checkouts to recognize…

it's because there are cameras connected to loss prevention who look at "ticket switching" every bit as much as any other method of shop lifting

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery

#22

Post by bvinc » Sat, Feb 03, 2018, 3:15 AM UTC

rhplus wrote: post #10

I was expecting the “banana trick” to be the case where dropping the leading 9 from the item code will ring up organic produce as the cheaper regular version (9nnnn vs nnnn).

I admit, I use this banana trick. It's the only way that I shoplift. I place down organic bananas, but using the touchscreen I navigate through "Select by Picture" -> "Fruits" -> "Bananas".

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery

#23

Post by creep » Sat, Feb 03, 2018, 4:37 AM UTC

I find the pseudo-moralizing about law-abiding citizens to be rather grating.

If a stranger in front of me dropped a $20 bill I would certainly let them know. However, that doesn't mean I am a law-abiding citizen. My empathy does not prevent me from stealing from grocery chains, whether faced with a human cashier or a machine. My morality is not based on law, nor should law equate to morality in all cases.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery

#24

Post by rambtampandor » Sat, Feb 03, 2018, 2:32 PM UTC

joezydeco wrote: post #3

mrguyorama wrote: post #2

The thing that upsets me most about self checkouts is just how artificially slowed down they are I used to be a cashier and bagger at a local supermarket. We were expected to be able to be able to keep up a pace from 20-30 scans per minute, including handling the money, counting change, etc, and baggers were expected to keep up, no matter the size of the order. Meanwhile I struggle to get self checkouts to recognize…

Look for a self-checkout that has a handheld scanner on a cord. 100% of the Target units I've used have them. The hand unit works way faster than the scanned-laser on the tabletop.

I’ve also realized this, and I had been using the machines that way, until an employee very sternly told me to “abstain from using the handheld scanner”.

To which, I cannot find a logical reason for..

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery

#25

Post by JoeAltmaier » Sat, Feb 03, 2018, 2:38 PM UTC

rambtampandor wrote: post #24

joezydeco wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look for a self-checkout that has a handheld scanner on a cord. 100% of the Target units I've used have them. The hand unit works way faster than the scanned-laser on the tabletop.

I’ve also realized this, and I had been using the machines that way, until an employee very sternly told me to “abstain from using the handheld scanner”. To which, I cannot find a logical reason for..

Must be easier to cheat? Palm another barcode etc.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery

#26

Post by joezydeco » Sat, Feb 03, 2018, 3:20 PM UTC

rambtampandor wrote: post #24

joezydeco wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look for a self-checkout that has a handheld scanner on a cord. 100% of the Target units I've used have them. The hand unit works way faster than the scanned-laser on the tabletop.

I’ve also realized this, and I had been using the machines that way, until an employee very sternly told me to “abstain from using the handheld scanner”. To which, I cannot find a logical reason for..

I'd just ignore that. Note that you also need the scanner for scanning your Cartwheel/Wallet barcode (like the regular cashiers do).

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery

#27

Post by dang » Mon, Feb 05, 2018, 7:08 AM UTC

grawprog wrote: post #18

pavel_lishin wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay. And I get that your original comment was mostly in jest. But ... to what end, exactly? Fine; some people can't use self-checkout counters. But there are typically multiple counters, and nearly every one I've ever seen used operated on a British queue-based system instead of a line, so one person taking a long to check out shouldn't slow you down significantly. And I don't even think I agree with your premise, a…

I think you're just upset cause you'd fail the test. It's cool most stores still have cashiers to assist you.

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Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery

#28

Post by mrguyorama » Tue, Feb 06, 2018, 5:18 PM UTC

matthewmacleod wrote: post #6

mrguyorama wrote: post #2

The thing that upsets me most about self checkouts is just how artificially slowed down they are I used to be a cashier and bagger at a local supermarket. We were expected to be able to be able to keep up a pace from 20-30 scans per minute, including handling the money, counting change, etc, and baggers were expected to keep up, no matter the size of the order. Meanwhile I struggle to get self checkouts to recognize…

I've used a lot of these systems in the UK, but I don't work in that industry (I'd love to be corrected by someone who does!) but my impression is that these machines are primarily slow because of a combination of awful software and sloppy guard periods around their operations in an attempt to help with UX. Some of the examples I've used are catastrophically broken; the machines in low-to-mid-tier supermarkets (ASDA…

I'm not convinced any parameters you could set on the systems would noticeably affect shrinkage, except possibly by dis-incentivizing people from using them entirely!

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery

#29

Post by mrguyorama » Tue, Feb 06, 2018, 5:19 PM UTC

moftz wrote: post #8

mrguyorama wrote: post #2

The thing that upsets me most about self checkouts is just how artificially slowed down they are I used to be a cashier and bagger at a local supermarket. We were expected to be able to be able to keep up a pace from 20-30 scans per minute, including handling the money, counting change, etc, and baggers were expected to keep up, no matter the size of the order. Meanwhile I struggle to get self checkouts to recognize…

The worst is when you have a self-checkout that adds a wait between scanning identical items. If I buy more than one of the same items, I scan other things between them otherwise the system makes you pause for several seconds because it thinks you are trying to scan the same thing twice even if you've already put the first item into a bag that's on the scale.

As a cashier, some systems allow you to type a quantity before scanning an item to simply multiply that scan. I wish self checkouts would let me scan my former employee badge and "unlock" all the features of a full checkout

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery

#30

Post by mrguyorama » Tue, Feb 06, 2018, 5:23 PM UTC

matthewmacleod wrote: post #7

grawprog wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you should have to take a simple intelligence test as you walk into a store. If you refuse or fail you don't get to use the self checkout. This should be a very very simple test like being able to read a number properly and pick something out of a list....when I stand there watching people use those machines I really feel like 90% of them would fail.

Sometimes I understand why you feel that way. But I think there's some bias; as an engineer I can work out why these machines operate the way they do, to some extent. From the perspective of someone with no experience in this field, I imagine it's a much more frustrating experience, especially when some of the machines are so god-awful to use.

You say that, but it doesn't take engineer levels of understanding to read the instructions in big, bright letters on the screen, which seems to be a skill many people lack when facing these devices.

I think it just comes down to yet another example of smart people forgetting how to function when faced with an electronic device, regardless of past experience with critical thinking and problem solving. It's willful helplessness.