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Why American men are getting less marriageable

businessinsider.com

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Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable

#21

Post by bufferoverflow »

swiley wrote: post #5

Looking at people I know and people I've dated, employability seems like the least interesting thing to women.

That's factually not true, women rarely date down. Women, on average, prefer slightly older men, equally or more educated then themselves, more successful than themselves financially, in good physical shape, dominant/aggressive.

That's why we always hear "where did all the good men go?" from women, even though they are surrounded by guys who throw themselves at the women.

So since more women and fewer men started going to college, the dating pool for women shrunk a lot.

Clinical psychologist Jordan Peterson is famous for talking about these issues on YouTube, highly recommended.

Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable

#22

Post by watwut »

erikb wrote: post #14
cimmanom wrote: post #12

Looking at this from another perspective: As a modern woman who makes good money, I'd be comfortable in theory with marrying a man who makes far less than I do. The problem with that in practice is gender roles in marriage. It's still the norm for women to be responsible for the lion's share of cooking, cleaning, and childrearing. Even in the marriages with the most "woke" husbands I see among my friends, the wife al…

Agreed. And I would even say that the traditional gender definitions will shift automatically if it's really the case that women can be the major bread winner in a relationship. The basic deal of "I give you a home, you give me financial stability" is a good one, no matter who's who in this relationship. It's just a transition that naturally takes 2-3 generations, and the people who are caught in the middle are a lit…

I think that "I give you a home, you give me financial stability" deal does not really work in practice. The one that is supposed to give financial stability is very likely to end up spending so much time at work, that home does not really matter. And if the work ends up not liked by him/her, resentful. And the one at home is very likely to end up feeling unappreciated, useless and so on.

Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable

#23

Post by watwut »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #8
munchor wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK marriage does give enormous significant breaks in most western societies.

Until the divorce, then men get wrecked financially most of the time, losing houses, half the money, forced to pay alimony.

You pay alimony only if you expected women to give up work for marriage.

Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable

#24

Post by Gatsky »

cimmanom wrote: post #12

Looking at this from another perspective: As a modern woman who makes good money, I'd be comfortable in theory with marrying a man who makes far less than I do. The problem with that in practice is gender roles in marriage. It's still the norm for women to be responsible for the lion's share of cooking, cleaning, and childrearing. Even in the marriages with the most "woke" husbands I see among my friends, the wife al…

This is exactly why women in Japan have stopped getting married, it's a terrible deal for them as there is no flexibility in gender roles.

Men, as they currently exist, are becoming obsolete. There will need to be a great adaptation and reassignment of roles as women will soon surpass men in their 'default' social, financial and political status. Frankly, it isn't going to go down very well. Lets hope that traditional masculinity doesn't start a war on its way down.

Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable

#27

Post by daemin »

Gatsky wrote: post #24
cimmanom wrote: post #12

Looking at this from another perspective: As a modern woman who makes good money, I'd be comfortable in theory with marrying a man who makes far less than I do. The problem with that in practice is gender roles in marriage. It's still the norm for women to be responsible for the lion's share of cooking, cleaning, and childrearing. Even in the marriages with the most "woke" husbands I see among my friends, the wife al…

This is exactly why women in Japan have stopped getting married, it's a terrible deal for them as there is no flexibility in gender roles. Men, as they currently exist, are becoming obsolete. There will need to be a great adaptation and reassignment of roles as women will soon surpass men in their 'default' social, financial and political status. Frankly, it isn't going to go down very well. Lets hope that traditiona…

There was also the trend of "herbivore men" in Japan where they didn't want to actively pursue women, and instead were just interested in being friends with them (in the purely platonic sense). This actually drove women mad because at some level they did want men to make the moves.

Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable

#28

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

romanovcode wrote: post #2

I think the job/economy weights much less then the fact that marriage gives absolutely zero benefits for men in western society and implies a lot of risks.

That's so true. When you're not married, you can decide one day you want to quit, and that's it, the end of the story. When you're married, you need to prepare to lose money. And why? The only reason is because you signed a piece of paper. It's a very bleak perspective.

This is strengthened by culture: look how the marriage is presented in the movies, for example. The woman is anxious if he's going to propose, then he has to buy a very expensive ring just to propose, then she is extremely happy as if she won a lottery (not because he loves her, but because he decided to marry).

Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable

#29

Post by arethuza »

PuffinBlue wrote: post #20
cimmanom wrote: post #12

Looking at this from another perspective: As a modern woman who makes good money, I'd be comfortable in theory with marrying a man who makes far less than I do. The problem with that in practice is gender roles in marriage. It's still the norm for women to be responsible for the lion's share of cooking, cleaning, and childrearing. Even in the marriages with the most "woke" husbands I see among my friends, the wife al…

> The solution, in my opinion, would be to continue to erase traditional gender roles. If most of the men out there were ready to take on the homemaker role enthusiastically, I would be far more willing to consider them as partners even if they make a fraction of what I do. The solution is not merely one sided. Women must also be willing to 'give up' those roles. Say what you will about men stepping up but my ongoing…

Perhaps its because my wife is a commercial litigation lawyer - but we've ended up having a fairly firm "contract" as to who does what in our household. She shops, I cook. She cleans some parts of the house, I clean others. We both look after our own clothes. Just about everything has a clear demarcation and, in general, we do the bits we like (or at least dislike least).

This has survived 27 years and kids so far.... :-)

Re: Why American men are getting less marriageable

#30

Post by Nursie »

Blackstone4 wrote: post #16
cimmanom wrote: post #12

Looking at this from another perspective: As a modern woman who makes good money, I'd be comfortable in theory with marrying a man who makes far less than I do. The problem with that in practice is gender roles in marriage. It's still the norm for women to be responsible for the lion's share of cooking, cleaning, and childrearing. Even in the marriages with the most "woke" husbands I see among my friends, the wife al…

> And if both are breadwinners, almost invariably the homemaking burden falls more heavily on the wife. Which is why I'm in favor of outsourcing (i.e. cleaning, take-out, blue apron). My friends (she's a doctor and he's a product manager) say getting a cleaner is the best thing they could have done for their relationship

Yeah, I need to get this sorted out. My long term GF and I are both really lazy in the home. It doesn't (often) strain the relationship, but ... yeah. Just having someone in to get a bunch of the drudgery out of the way would be good.
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