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Ask HN: Do You Consider Remote a Working Perk?

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Re: Ask HN: Do You Consider Remote a Working Perk?

#21
It’s not a perk at all in 2018, IMO, except perhaps for some logistical issues you might personally have (eg dealing with your kids, etc). I speak from experience. If you are maintaining full-on focus, as you said, you’re only saving the company money. Every point you’ve made here is valid.

Working “remotely” actually puts the entire burden of managing an office and managing deadlines squarely on your shoulders.

EDIT: I mean managing your own deadlines of course

Re: Ask HN: Do You Consider Remote a Working Perk?

#22

> They replied, "Can you consider coming down since this is a remote position?" It's a perk in the sense that you're not paying bay area rents. If you're in a high CoL area and want to say, applying to remote positions is an uphill battle, as the chief reason most companies want to look remote is to expand their recruiting reach without raising wages, and hoping to lower them.

Meanwhile, companies like Basecamp are doing the opposite, and basing pay off of SF:

https://m.signalvnoise.com/basecamp-doesnt-employ-anyone-in-...

Re: Ask HN: Do You Consider Remote a Working Perk?

#23
Your intuition is right that you shouldn’t come down because it’s remote unless that is an optional accommodation for them. It’s not like they would offer you the same position without the remote option for a higher rate. Your rate is based on the sum total value they can offer, right? It sounds like a poor negotiation tactic on their part.

Re: Ask HN: Do You Consider Remote a Working Perk?

#24
I've been remote for a few years. I've negotiated remote offers from many bay area a companies. This is a pretty standard piece of hr bullshit you should ignore. The correct answer is to hold your ground.

If for some reason that doesn't work out, you've discovered that the company values you less based on your zip code which is something you definitely want to find out before you're relying on them for your livelyhood.

Re: Ask HN: Do You Consider Remote a Working Perk?

#25
Paying market prices for employees is a great way to cut costs and optimize profits by exploiting workers' living arrangements. If someone lives in a market where there is very little job competition, and their cost of living is low, pay them less money! Your business will save money, and it's more fair to your workers who live in more expensive neighborhoods.

^ This is basically the rationale I imagine when people pay the same worker less money just because of where they live. They obviously could hire someone local and would pay them more money. But they want to hire you. But they also think they can get away with screwing you on compensation, because you're remote. They save money and they get an employee. It's a win-win for them.

Fuck. That. Especially because they said "Can you consider ...". Uh, no, Mr. I Just Lost All My Negotiating Power By Asking Someone To Think About My Request Rather Than Insisting On It.

Remote is not a benefit. If they had a million qualified local candidates banging down their door, they wouldn't be negotiating with you. Tell them to put up or shut up.

Re: Ask HN: Do You Consider Remote a Working Perk?

#26

In some situations it would be said you are being too literal? Sometimes when people negotiate they say "can you do x because y" where y is just a plausible way to ask for x. It is often more graceful than just saying "we don't want to pay that much."

im not following, can you explain what you mean a little more thoroughly?

I think whiddershins means the "since it's a remote position" part of the argument is just a smokescreen, and that they really just mean "can you come down on price". Perhaps the OP should call their bluff and offer to work on-site.

Re: Ask HN: Do You Consider Remote a Working Perk?

#27

In some situations it would be said you are being too literal? Sometimes when people negotiate they say "can you do x because y" where y is just a plausible way to ask for x. It is often more graceful than just saying "we don't want to pay that much."

im not following, can you explain what you mean a little more thoroughly?

He's saying that saying "can you do X because Y" sometimes is just another way of asking "can you do X". So in this case, them asking for the OP to lower salary may have nothing to do with the position being remote, even though that's what they said.

This is a common negotiation tactic. If you give someone _any_ reason when making a request, they are more likely to comply, even if that reason doesn't make sense.

Small example, at a coffee shop: "Can I cut in line?" might get a negative response, but "can I cut in line, I am late to pick up my son from school" is much more likely to get a positive response. I don't have a link, but there have been studies to show that even nonsensical justifications are more likely to get positive responses. "Can I cut in line, my grandmother is watching TV" is more effective than no justification at all.

In this case, by connecting the salary reduction to a feature of the job (remote), it makes it more acceptable to comply with the request than if it didn't have a reason attached.

Re: Ask HN: Do You Consider Remote a Working Perk?

#28
> Yes, I'm willing to negotiate on principal, but it has nothing to do with being remote.

Why do you even care then?

> My thinking is that it's difficult to find the type of people who has the focus and skills (focus overrides skill, I think) to really do remote work well.

Are you basing that on anything other than wild fantasy? Have you heard of eastern Europe, where tons of people will work remote for far less money?

> In return, I give full-on focused work with no cruft.

All employees are expected to give that, remote or not, whatever "with no cruft" really means.

Re: Ask HN: Do You Consider Remote a Working Perk?

#29
Not a perk but as This is a specific market it all comes to the balance between number of remote Job offers in your domain and number of people looking for a remote position in your domain. Anyway if you're experimented working remote you can explain that it makes you real productive and that you see no reason to lower your fees/salary
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