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The Struggling Artist at 86

nytimes.com

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Re: The Struggling Artist at 86

#21

Post by tmh79 »

crispinb wrote: post #6
nyc111 wrote: post #2

Compare him to Picasso. Picasso never said "I had to pay the rent." He never considered earning money with anything other than painting. When he had no money he lived in friends' apartments. He faced and accepted poverty and hunger. Picasso did not compromise. Same with Van Gogh. Paintings on their own have no value. Buyers pay for the life story of the painters. The more heroic is your life the more expensive your p…

The idea that there is some One True Path to becoming an Artist (as if either path or role were a consequence of universal natural law) is myth-making at its most obtuse. Even a cursory glance at art history will show the heroic myth is anything but universal. There are tortured artists yet others who are at the peak of mental health. There are poor artists, rich ones, uncompromising artists, artists who'll sell thei…

There is a huge difference between "all great artists did X" and "there is nothing particularly in common between all great artists". My intuition is telling me that the truth is definitely in the middle, and if there was some way to perform a "clustering" algorithm on artist's lives/work/legacy/commercial success we would see some clear patterns emerge around certain "archetypes" or "personas" of artists, and this guy doesn't seem to fit into one.

Re: The Struggling Artist at 86

#22

Post by meric »

tmh79 wrote: post #21
crispinb wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that there is some One True Path to becoming an Artist (as if either path or role were a consequence of universal natural law) is myth-making at its most obtuse. Even a cursory glance at art history will show the heroic myth is anything but universal. There are tortured artists yet others who are at the peak of mental health. There are poor artists, rich ones, uncompromising artists, artists who'll sell thei…

There is a huge difference between "all great artists did X" and "there is nothing particularly in common between all great artists". My intuition is telling me that the truth is definitely in the middle, and if there was some way to perform a "clustering" algorithm on artist's lives/work/legacy/commercial success we would see some clear patterns emerge around certain "archetypes" or "personas" of artists, and this g…

It is natural for one’s intuition to be in the middle of one’s perception of two extremes. :)

Re: The Struggling Artist at 86

#23

Post by [deleted] »

gnud wrote: post #19
nyc111 wrote: post #2

Compare him to Picasso. Picasso never said "I had to pay the rent." He never considered earning money with anything other than painting. When he had no money he lived in friends' apartments. He faced and accepted poverty and hunger. Picasso did not compromise. Same with Van Gogh. Paintings on their own have no value. Buyers pay for the life story of the painters. The more heroic is your life the more expensive your p…

This mythology surrounding the suffering artist is pretty much a fairly modern invention. That's not to say that earlier artists didn't struggle - but it was not fetishished in the same way. Mozart, Handel both had wealthy patrons, and made music for their use. Mozart also made quite a lot of fairly commercial music. Bach and Teleman both worked for the church. Was Rembrandt a worse painter than Van Gogh, since he ha…

[deleted]

Re: The Struggling Artist at 86

#24

Post by unicornporn »

nyc111 wrote: post #2

Compare him to Picasso. Picasso never said "I had to pay the rent." He never considered earning money with anything other than painting. When he had no money he lived in friends' apartments. He faced and accepted poverty and hunger. Picasso did not compromise. Same with Van Gogh. Paintings on their own have no value. Buyers pay for the life story of the painters. The more heroic is your life the more expensive your p…

To be honest, this guys approach to creating a myth around himself seems much more compelling and unique to me. As is the (post mortem) Vivian Maier story.

Re: The Struggling Artist at 86

#25

Post by theoh »

megaman22 wrote: post #9
claudiulodro wrote: post #7

> “Harry’s never been a salesman,” said Mary Bertschmann, his wife of more than 50 years. “He didn’t get his art out there for them to see.” Like pretty much everything in life, it all comes back to marketing. In order for people to want a specific artist's art they have to know the artist exists and they have to be familiar with his work. The more people that know, the more people will want the art, and the more val…

God, Rothkos... nobody has ever been able to explain why I should care about him or his fuzzy rectangles. And I was engaged to an artist that loved him...

Maybe try appreciating a grid painting by Agnes Martin. If that makes sense to you as something beautiful (calm, orderly), go back to Rothko and see if it feels a bit sublime (clouded, heavy, dense). This is not about ideas.

Re: The Struggling Artist at 86

#26

Post by megaman22 »

klodolph wrote: post #13
megaman22 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

God, Rothkos... nobody has ever been able to explain why I should care about him or his fuzzy rectangles. And I was engaged to an artist that loved him...

If you have not seen a Rothko in person, you may want to postpone judgment a bit. I've known a few people who have independently told me that they didn't get Rothko until they went to a museum with his work.

They're fucking garbage, in person or otherwise. Ive seen far more of them than any person needs to.

Re: The Struggling Artist at 86

#27

Post by mattbierner »

Wish there was a better proxy for the value of an artist than what their works sell for. For example, how many people did this guy influence, how did his work change art or how people understand the world? Neither was really discussed in the article

Re: The Struggling Artist at 86

#28

Post by TipVFL »

nyc111 wrote: post #2

Compare him to Picasso. Picasso never said "I had to pay the rent." He never considered earning money with anything other than painting. When he had no money he lived in friends' apartments. He faced and accepted poverty and hunger. Picasso did not compromise. Same with Van Gogh. Paintings on their own have no value. Buyers pay for the life story of the painters. The more heroic is your life the more expensive your p…

"He never considered earning money with anything other than painting. When he had no money he lived in friends' apartments. He faced and accepted poverty and hunger. Picasso did not compromise. Same with Van Gogh."

I'm not sure that Van Gogh is a great example of someone who never compromised or gave up.

He wanted to be a preacher, but nobody liked him. He also painted, and continued that after giving up on preaching. But nobody liked his paintings either, so he killed himself.

Re: The Struggling Artist at 86

#29

Post by anigbrowl »

nyc111 wrote: post #2

Compare him to Picasso. Picasso never said "I had to pay the rent." He never considered earning money with anything other than painting. When he had no money he lived in friends' apartments. He faced and accepted poverty and hunger. Picasso did not compromise. Same with Van Gogh. Paintings on their own have no value. Buyers pay for the life story of the painters. The more heroic is your life the more expensive your p…

That describes one very narrow and ahistorical approach to art marketing, and conceives of 'value' in purely monetary terms.

Re: The Struggling Artist at 86

#30

Post by Forge36 »

TipVFL wrote: post #28
nyc111 wrote: post #2

Compare him to Picasso. Picasso never said "I had to pay the rent." He never considered earning money with anything other than painting. When he had no money he lived in friends' apartments. He faced and accepted poverty and hunger. Picasso did not compromise. Same with Van Gogh. Paintings on their own have no value. Buyers pay for the life story of the painters. The more heroic is your life the more expensive your p…

"He never considered earning money with anything other than painting. When he had no money he lived in friends' apartments. He faced and accepted poverty and hunger. Picasso did not compromise. Same with Van Gogh." I'm not sure that Van Gogh is a great example of someone who never compromised or gave up. He wanted to be a preacher, but nobody liked him. He also painted, and continued that after giving up on preaching…

He's not an example I'd advise following. But your summary is an apt example of creating a story.

Even his method of death is still discussed: http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/art/news/did...

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