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Buffer’s Salary Formula 3.0

open.buffer.com

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Re: Buffer’s Salary Formula 3.0

#21

Post by kennydude »

StavrosK wrote: post #3

I really dislike adjusting salaries of remote employees by location. Oh, you live in San Francisco, where everything costs a lot because it's trivial to network and get a multitude of job offers the minute you change your LinkedIn status? Let us pay you for the privilege double what we pay someone in Kenya who has none of these opportunities! Or, alternatively, "You don't live in SF so we don't have to compete with a…

I'm glad they at least put a minimum on the "Cost of Living" multiplier. For me that works out at 0.45 (Newcastle-upon-Tyne)

Re: Buffer’s Salary Formula 3.0

#22

Post by moxious »

jasonkester wrote: post #15

To me, this seems like it will ensure your company only ever has average developers. A good developer can negotiate a bette rate if he wants, or at the least, he'll be offered gigs at above average rates. By sticking to the exact market average according to their salary surveys, they're only able to select from the list of candidates who don't meet the above criteria. That is, the below average ones, and the occasion…

Not all developers care about salary first.

I see this overall approach as more like flying a flag and publicly indicating culture because there's a particular crowd they want. This is how they advertise what's important to them and draw like minded people closer. That seems 100% legit to me, and super useful for any dev considering them that they're so straightforward.

No one has to like it or choose it for themselves, but I see it as nothing but laudable. It's a big wide market out there, and this is a quirky option I'm glad exists

Re: Buffer’s Salary Formula 3.0

#23

Post by moxious »

have_faith wrote: post #13

There are people with the role "Happiness Hero". This is new to me, can anyone explain? What do they tell future employers?

You tell them that at startups, titles are total fiction not used to describe job responsibilities but to participate in a branding effect for the company.

And then you describe your actual duties and experience.

I don't think titles matter at all because they're always different everywhere you go. The only exception is if you're a committed ladder climber and you're going from one place with a rigid hierarchy to another similar place. In this case jockeying for title position can be important.

Re: Buffer’s Salary Formula 3.0

#24

Post by simonhamp »

moxious wrote: post #17
ploggingdev wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basecamp recently started paying all employees SF salaries : https://m.signalvnoise.com/basecamp-doesnt-employ-anyone-in-... They are a class act, I'm not aware of any other company that does this.

That comes across to me really strange. Labor is a market just like bananas or mobile phone data. How does it make sense to pay the ceiling price of all markets, everywhere? I'm all for personally earning more money, but this also disproportionately rewards people who live in cheap places.

As I recall, none of Basecamp’s staff actually live in SF so everyone wins!

The main goal here appears to be securing their talent, as it’s becoming increasingly difficult to hold onto staff and create a stable enterprise. I imagine that only becomes more difficult when you’re a distributed team.

From the employee perspective: Will you really switch jobs now that your salary is top of market for your location? Any job nearby won’t pay you anywhere near that salary! You will have to move to the valley.

So it obviates job choice based on salary being a deciding factor in your life, your location and your connections. (Just because SF and other places have opportunity doesn’t make it attractive to all - opportunity cost like being away from family or friends can outweigh it.)

It’s then entirely up to you where you live and how beneficial you make that salary to you and your family.

The community where the staff live benefits too. Their surplus income will most likely be spent locally and depending on how they’re taxed, the local authority will benefit too.

Basecamp also has a sideline benefit: the massive PR that comes from awareness of this. And I bet they get droves of great talent jumping all over their new positions this year, from everywhere, _especially_ the valley!

Great tactic. Putting people first.

Re: Buffer’s Salary Formula 3.0

#25

Post by rtpg »

moxious wrote: post #17
ploggingdev wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basecamp recently started paying all employees SF salaries : https://m.signalvnoise.com/basecamp-doesnt-employ-anyone-in-... They are a class act, I'm not aware of any other company that does this.

That comes across to me really strange. Labor is a market just like bananas or mobile phone data. How does it make sense to pay the ceiling price of all markets, everywhere? I'm all for personally earning more money, but this also disproportionately rewards people who live in cheap places.

Market capitalism is a tool that lets you pay the person living in the countryside less.

But we are the ones who decide whether paying the countryside person less is "fair". The moral weight of our actions are mostly independent of what a free market gives.

The market is a tool, not the objective.

Re: Buffer’s Salary Formula 3.0

#26

Post by jasonkester »

moxious wrote: post #22
jasonkester wrote: post #15

To me, this seems like it will ensure your company only ever has average developers. A good developer can negotiate a bette rate if he wants, or at the least, he'll be offered gigs at above average rates. By sticking to the exact market average according to their salary surveys, they're only able to select from the list of candidates who don't meet the above criteria. That is, the below average ones, and the occasion…

Not all developers care about salary first. I see this overall approach as more like flying a flag and publicly indicating culture because there's a particular crowd they want. This is how they advertise what's important to them and draw like minded people closer. That seems 100% legit to me, and super useful for any dev considering them that they're so straightforward. No one has to like it or choose it for themselv…

Negotiating your market rate isn't caring about money 'first'. It's caring about money 'at all.' They're different.

Leaving $50k/year on the table at age 30 will move your retirement date back ten years. It takes a lot of culture to make up for that.

Re: Buffer’s Salary Formula 3.0

#27

Post by StavrosK »

moxious wrote: post #20
StavrosK wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the thing, you don't get the same quality of life. If you're in the valley, you have many orders of magnitude greater job liquidity than anywhere else, which is why you're paying the living cost premium. Otherwise, why would you live in a high-cost area?

There are a zillion reasons to live in high cost areas aside from job liquidity. The magic of concentrations of people is that the advantages scale faster than population growth because of the network effect. Which, separately, is why cities are awesome and population density is a good thing for the planet and most people, even if it upsets some people that they can't have a big yard.

That's my point: Getting paid less on top of not having those advantages isn't appealing to me.

However, your argument is not valid: Large size doesn't imply high cost. Neither Shanghai (most populous city) nor Manila (most dense city) have higher costs of living than SF.

Re: Buffer’s Salary Formula 3.0

#30

Post by AdamSC1 »

have_faith wrote: post #13

There are people with the role "Happiness Hero". This is new to me, can anyone explain? What do they tell future employers?

You tell them it was the title for a customer support role at the startup you worked at.

Most of those people will likely end up at other startups anyway.

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