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Ask PG: Why do you think Africa cannot produce global scale start ups?

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Re: Ask PG: Why do you think Africa cannot produce global scale start ups?

#21
post #20

As a Nigerian Internet start up founder Note: I'm an American and not an expert on Nigeria. Still, my impression is that Nigeria doesn't have a very robust legal system or real property rights enforcement; when I think of law in Nigeria, I remember Ken Saro-Wiwa and the innumerable articles I've read about people fighting over oil spoils. (Once again: this could be wrong and Nigeria's legal system might be very good,…

Forget causation, there's not even correlation there. What about all the startups in China, India, Russia?

I personally fear for them too. HK is probably not an issue but for some of the other places, I find them risky.

That being said, if you can't find money in the US/Canada for your idea, do whatever you need to succeed. If I lived in those countries, I wouldn't give a crap and just try. At least I'd have an idea of what to watch for better than us looking at those countries from afar.

Re: Ask PG: Why do you think Africa cannot produce global scale start ups?

#22
Every third order my company receives from Nigeria is a scam. The cheap, effective and over reaching solution to this issue is to simply stop shipping to Nigeria. This is the path I chose and the one that most small business owners will choose.

Perhaps we're missing out on some money but the cost in time and effort to capture that little bit of money isn't worth it relative to other projects. I'm in business to ship product to those who will reliably pay, not to figure out which of my customers will actually pay ahead of shipment. If I can't know, I won't risk it.

I don't think my experience is unique. I think this situation has repeated itself in most small businesses in America. I think this group of individual experiences has been generalized as "It costs too much to do business with Africa". Unfair? Sure. Poor Logic? Absolutely. Am I going to change this? No. Its not worth my time and effort.

I'm also going to be very skeptical of business deals or services originating from Nigeria. Do you see a mint.com or inDinero taking off in Africa? Would you personally trust your financial data to such a service and if so, what are your reasons given your lack of recourse through rule of law?

I believe what I'm saying here is what most are thinking, but won't say. I want to lay out what it looks like in the trenches on this side. I fully realize that I am half of the reason that this situation exists. Until I need your money more than you need my services, I do not see it changing. I know that is harsh, but I sincerely believe it to be the case.

I hope things improve. I hope bad experiences are replaced with good ones and Nigeria specifically and Africa generally are looked at as reliable business partners. I hope you create a ridiculously successful business. Most importantly, I hope you'll take this post in the spirit in which its offered.

Re: Ask PG: Why do you think Africa cannot produce global scale start ups?

#23

Another thing oo, PG doesn't know Africa like you and I do, so I don't think his statement is the final word on African startups. Lets prove him wrong. (rolling up sleeves....)

Warren Buffet once said, invest in what you know.

Re: Ask PG: Why do you think Africa cannot produce global scale start ups?

#24
post #20

As a Nigerian Internet start up founder Note: I'm an American and not an expert on Nigeria. Still, my impression is that Nigeria doesn't have a very robust legal system or real property rights enforcement; when I think of law in Nigeria, I remember Ken Saro-Wiwa and the innumerable articles I've read about people fighting over oil spoils. (Once again: this could be wrong and Nigeria's legal system might be very good,…

Forget causation, there's not even correlation there. What about all the startups in China, India, Russia?

Preface: I am just another ignorant westerner. Any one of my impressions of these countries could be so wrong as to make my conclusions meaningless. If I'm wrong, please be gentle.

I believe there's some differences of scale here. China and India both have over a billion people. With 10x the population of Nigeria, even with identically bad property rights and legal systems (and I suspect that both India and China are somewhat better off in that regard than Nigeria), with that difference in addressable market you'd expect more startups out of them.

Russia -- which has a shrinking population now roughly the same as Nigeria's rapidly-expanding one -- is a more interesting comparison. I think the only difference here is that Russia was formerly a wealthy country (as opposed to a country in which a few extremely wealthy people live) which invested heavily in education, while Nigeria is a formerly poor one that has yet to catch up.

So if Nigeria were to suddenly pour as much money into education as the USSR did, you might expect a flood of Nigerian startups in a decade's time. But that would explain why there aren't too many of them right now.

Re: Ask PG: Why do you think Africa cannot produce global scale start ups?

#25
post #9

Africa has produced a number of insanely successful start-ups, though mostly not in the tech area. e.g. De Beers is dominating the diamond market worldwide & was founded in South Africa. Same for Anglo American PLC. On the tech side there is Dimension data. They are in talks regarding a take-over for 2bn pounds. MTN Group is operating in 21 countries. Then there is Mark Shuttleworth's startup Thawte consulting. Sure,…

I think Mark Shuttleworth's Thawte (bought by Verisign) is the only real example of a startup in the sense most on HN would think about it, at least at scale.

It's also worth noting he started Canonical which gave us Ubuntu.

But in South Africa at least, there are plenty of startups - again a much smaller scale than US or Europe - in software and Internet. Few people even in SA know about them, so I wouldn't expect pg to leap in to fund a bunch. Africa needs to develop it's own pg's. I actually think the approach of "micro-angel-seed-VC" is a good fit for the funding problem.

Re: Ask PG: Why do you think Africa cannot produce global scale start ups?

#26
post #7

Part of the problem might be that solutions that work for US startups (and therefore are assumed to be defacto global solutions) might not work in Africa. The usual promotional tools for a website are to get a blog up, build your followers on Twitter, try to get covered by Techcrunch etc. None of this is going to be anywhere near as effective in Africa. It's probably not cool - but perhaps African (and all developing…

There's the pricing factor too... a population with a median income of between 2 and 10% of US median income simply isn't going to buy SaaS subscriptions in comparable volumes at comparable prices to US companies. For much the same reason, these consumers are also worth less in raw money terms to advertisers. which means a lot less revenue for typical Y-combinator startups in African domestic markets even before transaction costs (quite possibly higher?) are taken into account.

Re: Ask PG: Why do you think Africa cannot produce global scale start ups?

#27
post #20

As a Nigerian Internet start up founder Note: I'm an American and not an expert on Nigeria. Still, my impression is that Nigeria doesn't have a very robust legal system or real property rights enforcement; when I think of law in Nigeria, I remember Ken Saro-Wiwa and the innumerable articles I've read about people fighting over oil spoils. (Once again: this could be wrong and Nigeria's legal system might be very good,…

Forget causation, there's not even correlation there. What about all the startups in China, India, Russia?

I think some of the other commenters addressed this well, but as for Russia, it's a terrible example and has a lot of the same problems that Nigeria appears to; Newsweek just ran an article on the subject: http://www.newsweek.com/2010/08/14/putin-s-russia-exile-busi... .

As for China and India, both countries have GDPs that have been growing at 10% per year for more than two decades, and not purely from oil or other natural resource profits, which appears true of what growth Russia and Nigeria have experienced.

That's not to say India and China will continue their incredible growth forever, or that either country is ideal for startups, but my impression (once again: might be wrong) is that despite the problems startups face, those problems are not as tremendous as they are in Nigeria or Russia.

In addition, as far as I know neither India nor China has produced any global Internet software product companies along the lines of Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, or Facebook.

Re: Ask PG: Why do you think Africa cannot produce global scale start ups?

#28
Well, my one datapoint on this whole matter is that the overwhelming majority of scams on my sites come from that region of the world, so I'm about ready to write off the whole continent in terms of doing business. If I were to write a bayesian scam filter, "Comes from Africa" would be one of the most important positive signals.

I would assume that many other businesses have shared this experience and come to the same conclusion. Things are getting better, I'm sure, but they're not near the "worth my time" threshold yet.

Re: Ask PG: Why do you think Africa cannot produce global scale start ups?

#29
post #19
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Awful examples man. De Beers are colonial profiteers, not an African firm. Sheesh.

The business practices of De Beers have been less than stellar, however De Beers was founded in South Africa, has been headquartered in South Africa and is 15% owned by the Government of Botswana. I agree that they are a poor example though as considering them a start up though would be a bit like calling Ford a startup, both companies are a bit beyond that stage of their lives.

It may have been founded there, but only because that's where the rocks are and they can get away with running a cartel. It was founded by a Englishman and even then it was 120 years ago. Terrible example of an African startup.
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