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India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

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Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#21

Post by JumpCrisscross »

axiom92 wrote: post #17
adrya407 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>These people are mainly relatively unskilled Not only that I agree with that, but I'd like to add the fact that after 2 years of working in a team splitted in Romania and India, the working experience with Indian programmers is relatively difficult. It's not something isolated to an individual, all of my colleagues have been complaining that they would really like to work with someone else, but not from India. I thi…

> I think it comes from their culture, they are not used to work hard or to do something willingly. Cut the crap. India is a country of 1.3 billion people, don't peddle bullshit stereotypes. Not working hard doesn't come from the culture; it's quite the opposite if anything. >They are doing it if they must, if someone tells them that they have to do it. Maybe the firm you are dealing with doesn't pay the employees we…

I am part Indian (albeit ethnically, not culturally) and work in finance. I always had a great experience working with Indian bankers, investors and VCs. The stereotypes puzzled me.

Then I spoke to a few IT outsourcing/consulting companies. It’s horrible. Starting sentences with “no” even when agreeing, jargon-laid bullshitting, lying about simple things, overt sexism (e.g. if my female colleague asks a question, the response is addressed to me), et cetera. I fully blame a small handful of firms for nurturing a toxic culture and then projecting it to the world.

(Indian tech start-ups have, in my experience, a wonderful culture.)

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#22

Post by naravara »

axiom92 wrote: post #17
adrya407 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>These people are mainly relatively unskilled Not only that I agree with that, but I'd like to add the fact that after 2 years of working in a team splitted in Romania and India, the working experience with Indian programmers is relatively difficult. It's not something isolated to an individual, all of my colleagues have been complaining that they would really like to work with someone else, but not from India. I thi…

> I think it comes from their culture, they are not used to work hard or to do something willingly. Cut the crap. India is a country of 1.3 billion people, don't peddle bullshit stereotypes. Not working hard doesn't come from the culture; it's quite the opposite if anything. >They are doing it if they must, if someone tells them that they have to do it. Maybe the firm you are dealing with doesn't pay the employees we…

>Maybe the firm you are dealing with doesn't pay the employees well enough, which in turn causes demotivation?

This. I had the same complaint about the India based team I had to work with, until one of them came on rotation to the states, we had a beer together, and he told me all about the working environment they have there. Nightmarish commutes, extremely nitpicky and punitive performance management, no commitment to career development, limited benefits, brutal hours, and meagre pay even adjusted for Indian CoL.

Under those conditions, it's no wonder people were hard to work with. They were overworked, held to stupid performance metrics that demoralized them, and were under the boot of a "beatings will continue until morale improves" management style.

If you hire based only on cost, nickel and dime each other to maximize your value for money in the short term, and generally treat your workforce like chattel, it shouldn't be surprising when they're disengaged and unable to be as forward leaning as you would like.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#23

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

axiom92 wrote: post #17
adrya407 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>These people are mainly relatively unskilled Not only that I agree with that, but I'd like to add the fact that after 2 years of working in a team splitted in Romania and India, the working experience with Indian programmers is relatively difficult. It's not something isolated to an individual, all of my colleagues have been complaining that they would really like to work with someone else, but not from India. I thi…

> I think it comes from their culture, they are not used to work hard or to do something willingly. Cut the crap. India is a country of 1.3 billion people, don't peddle bullshit stereotypes. Not working hard doesn't come from the culture; it's quite the opposite if anything. >They are doing it if they must, if someone tells them that they have to do it. Maybe the firm you are dealing with doesn't pay the employees we…

What makes you say this? Don't stereotypes come from something? Do you think it's a coincidence that a stereotypical Asian American is reserved, disciplined, and good at math, and that Asian Americans in America make considerably more than any other race[1]?

Btw, "Cut the crap" is an unprofessional, unproductive way to start a conversation.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_wage_gap_in_the_United_...

Edit: To those downvoting me, can you please explain? What did I say in my post that was inaccurate?

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#24

Post by naravara »

melling wrote: post #7

The claim is that India will be the third largest economy in 2032, as China becomes #1. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-26/china-to-... Hopefully, this is simply a wake up call as the economy grows and diversifies.

Looks like most of the job loss is due to automation rather than lack of demand. The economy is going to keep growing, the returns will just accrue to a smaller share of people unless the government gets it tax-and-spend on.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#25

Post by toomuchtodo »

chickenfries wrote: post #18
ianai wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public sector municipal... doing what exactly? That doesn’t sound like a traditionally high tech market. Maybe your use case is atypical.

Big cities have all sorts of IT needs. And they employ a lot of contractors. Firms like IBM and Palantir make a lot of money contracting for government IT contracts...

Some cities even have their own networking team, as running their own fiber plant and all that entails (traffic lights and other devices that need comms) is usually cheaper than renting out copper or fiber from your local telco.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#26

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

melling wrote: post #7

The claim is that India will be the third largest economy in 2032, as China becomes #1. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-26/china-to-... Hopefully, this is simply a wake up call as the economy grows and diversifies.

Economic instability is a large reason for the push towards protectionism in America. Could those same forces lead to an Indian IT protectionism? Or do they lack enough industry currently?

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#27

Post by cjsawyer »

adrya407 wrote: post #11
abhishek0318 wrote: post #4

These people are mainly relatively unskilled. These companies are notorious for hiring entire batches of graduating students. Situation in top tier colleges is lot better. This can be seen from increase in placements in IITs this year.

>These people are mainly relatively unskilled Not only that I agree with that, but I'd like to add the fact that after 2 years of working in a team splitted in Romania and India, the working experience with Indian programmers is relatively difficult. It's not something isolated to an individual, all of my colleagues have been complaining that they would really like to work with someone else, but not from India. I thi…

Don’t stereotype an entire country of people.

That said, the Indians I have worked with were diligent workers who all but ignored instructions. They produced lots of work but most of it was not to spec. It was only a few groups though so I really can't speak with any scale backing me up.

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#28

Post by adrya407 »

axiom92 wrote: post #17
adrya407 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>These people are mainly relatively unskilled Not only that I agree with that, but I'd like to add the fact that after 2 years of working in a team splitted in Romania and India, the working experience with Indian programmers is relatively difficult. It's not something isolated to an individual, all of my colleagues have been complaining that they would really like to work with someone else, but not from India. I thi…

> I think it comes from their culture, they are not used to work hard or to do something willingly. Cut the crap. India is a country of 1.3 billion people, don't peddle bullshit stereotypes. Not working hard doesn't come from the culture; it's quite the opposite if anything. >They are doing it if they must, if someone tells them that they have to do it. Maybe the firm you are dealing with doesn't pay the employees we…

Since you are an Indian too, I think your remarks are kind of subjective and your reply a bit harsh, but I'll add more facts that sustain my point of view.

>Not working hard doesn't come from the culture

Yes it truly does. Since every individual has inherited from the environment and has been cultured that he needs to do just what he is told (the minimum), this is how he grows.

>Maybe the firm you are dealing with doesn't pay the employees well enough

You can't hide behind your finger with this excuse. If you want a raise you tend to work harder, do the extra mile, you defenly don't get a raise by doing the minimum. Also, if you are good at what you are doing but you are not happy with the salary then why accept the job in first place?

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#29

Post by [deleted] »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #26
melling wrote: post #7

The claim is that India will be the third largest economy in 2032, as China becomes #1. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-26/china-to-... Hopefully, this is simply a wake up call as the economy grows and diversifies.

Economic instability is a large reason for the push towards protectionism in America. Could those same forces lead to an Indian IT protectionism? Or do they lack enough industry currently?

[deleted]

Re: India’s IT industry laid off more than 56k employees this year

#30

Post by pksadiq »

abhishek0318 wrote: post #4

These people are mainly relatively unskilled. These companies are notorious for hiring entire batches of graduating students. Situation in top tier colleges is lot better. This can be seen from increase in placements in IITs this year.

> These people are mainly relatively unskilled. These companies are notorious for hiring entire batches of graduating students.

I guess the best interview should also add a touch-type test and the candidate should require at least 30wpm or so (if typing is very much required for the work).

When I was at college I have only seen less than 5 such students from the 250 total.

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