The article describes the apps as themes and pictures, but then says they "spread hate." While actually agreeing with the policies of the Third Reich is hideous, making your phone have a swastika on it (for a costume party, perhaps?) seems innocuous. Were there apps that actually spread hate in some way?
Editorial: Waiter, there's a Nazi theme in my Android Market
21–30 of 33 posts
Re: Editorial: Waiter, there's a Nazi theme in my Android Market
#22Think of it this way: app stores are kind of like privately owned bookstores. The owner of the bookstore doesn't have to carry the art book of nudes or the pro-Nazi thesis. I would be very unhappy with a general bookstore openly refusing to carry a book solely because of its political content.
Bookstores don't carry every book ever made; they're "curated". They have no obligation to carry every book you might want... if your tastes are significantly outside of the mainstream, you're going to sometimes have to order from a specialty seller or directly from the author/publisher.
Of course they don't. But not carrying every book ever printed is different from refusing to carry a class of books because of their political content.
And I did mention general bookstores. Let's take Glenn Beck books as an example. Personally, I find them rage-inducingly offensive. But I'd still expect the local bookstores, even here in liberal Seattle, to carry them, and, if they didn't have a copy on their shelves, to order it for me. Should I, say, have some sort of psychotic breakdown and decide that I wanted a copy.
Re: Editorial: Waiter, there's a Nazi theme in my Android Market
#23Think of it this way: app stores are kind of like privately owned bookstores. The owner of the bookstore doesn't have to carry the art book of nudes or the pro-Nazi thesis. I would be very unhappy with a general bookstore openly refusing to carry a book solely because of its political content.
> I would be very unhappy with a general bookstore openly refusing to carry a book solely because of its political content.
What is "openly" and why is it relevant?
BTW - What bookstores do you think that you're happy with?
Re: Editorial: Waiter, there's a Nazi theme in my Android Market
#24You can choose between censorship and freedom of speech. You can't have it both ways. Offensive speech is the small price you pay for your freedom. Enjoy it. And, BTW, I live in a country where I am not given the luxury of being able to express some impopular points of view without risking being arrested.
In that context, are carrier-mandated apps and handset-maker skins forced speech?
Re: Editorial: Waiter, there's a Nazi theme in my Android Market
#25"turns up skins which are disgustingly, hatefully pro-Nazism and pro-Hitler. That's a problem, no matter how you look at this." "hard look at what censorship really means, and what kind of role it can (and clearly should) play in the new frontier of app marketplaces" That's a seriously fucked up view on censorship right there. I hope it's just a troll and author really doesn't believe that censorship is ok, and censo…
I think the author believes that censorship is desirable for privately-run marketplaces such as the Android Market and Apple App Store.
I don't have a problem with the idea of Google censoring its market to some degree. Unlike Apple, Google has provided users with the ability to install software from any source, significantly mitigating the impact of any censorship. If Google doesn't want to censor hate speech, I'm ok with that too. Ultimately, it's their store, and it's up to them to decide what's sold in it.
I do, however believe that this is an example of poor search results. Someone searching for "Jewish" probably doesn't want this theme, even though it's relevant to the search term.
Re: Editorial: Waiter, there's a Nazi theme in my Android Market
#26"turns up skins which are disgustingly, hatefully pro-Nazism and pro-Hitler. That's a problem, no matter how you look at this." "hard look at what censorship really means, and what kind of role it can (and clearly should) play in the new frontier of app marketplaces" That's a seriously fucked up view on censorship right there. I hope it's just a troll and author really doesn't believe that censorship is ok, and censo…
I think the author intended to mean not-relevant instead of not-related. The relation between the search terms is such that results for one are likely not desirable to someone searching for the other.
Maybe thats the real scandal here: Google's market search returns not relevant results!
Re: Editorial: Waiter, there's a Nazi theme in my Android Market
#27Think of it this way: app stores are kind of like privately owned bookstores. The owner of the bookstore doesn't have to carry the art book of nudes or the pro-Nazi thesis. I would be very unhappy with a general bookstore openly refusing to carry a book solely because of its political content.
> I would be very unhappy with a general bookstore openly refusing to carry a book solely because of its political content. What is "openly" and why is it relevant? BTW - What bookstores do you think that you're happy with?
"Openly" was poorly phrased, I merely meant "that I know about". I don't actually spend a lot of time vetting bookstores.
I liked Village Books, but I haven't lived up in Bellingham for well over 18 years.
I like Elliott Bay.
I like the UW bookstore, but that's largely because of their fabulous SF&F selection.
Of the big chains, I prefer B&N.
Re: Editorial: Waiter, there's a Nazi theme in my Android Market
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What’s Google’s decision whether to sell crap like this got to do with freedom of speech? Everything. I, personally, find it disturbing. But if it does not breach the ToS of the Android market, Google has no right to remove the materials. More than that: by removing it from the market, Google would be dictating the terms for censorship in the marketplace, making it difficult for neonazis to find material that appea…
Actually, there is no connection between Google's decision and freedom of speech. First off I'm not attacking you since you mentioned that you are not from the US, and the majority of people in the US don't understand this either. Freedom of speech is not the right to be able to say anything you want anytime, anywhere, anyhow. Freedom of speech is the right to say anything you want without government interference. Go…
I think it's important to remember though that in most countries freedom of speech explicitly excludes stuff like hate speech.
Re: Editorial: Waiter, there's a Nazi theme in my Android Market
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The 1st amendment is about Congress, Which only means Google cannot be forced by law to remove the offensive material.
And they can probably not be forced to keep it, either.
No, but removing it is a statement they will not go to great lengths to protect free speech from the government, if it comes to that.
Re: Editorial: Waiter, there's a Nazi theme in my Android Market
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
What’s Google’s decision whether to sell crap like this got to do with freedom of speech? It’s not that hard: The police arresting the asshole developers of those themes? That’s an attack on freedom of speech [+]. Google not allowing them to sell their stuff through the Android Market? Not so much. (I very much expect that Google will remove the themes. It’s no big deal.) I think it’s ludicrous to even bring up freed…
> What’s Google’s decision whether to sell crap like this got to do with freedom of speech? Everything. I, personally, find it disturbing. But if it does not breach the ToS of the Android market, Google has no right to remove the materials. More than that: by removing it from the market, Google would be dictating the terms for censorship in the marketplace, making it difficult for neonazis to find material that appea…
But this is about Google, not the government. Your local book shop is free to not sell nazi literature and so is Google, freedom of speech doesn’t even come into play here and neither does segregation. Nazis can try to find another book shop or open their own, simple as that.
It is pretty obvious why it is not a good idea to apply freedom of speech not just to citizen-state relationships but also to citizen-citizen relationships. Wouldn’t citizen-citizen freedom of speech, for example, imply that publishers have to publish every manuscript that is sent to them?
Freedom of speech is all about making it impossible for the state to make a law which would, for example, make it illegal to sell nazi literature. Nothing more.