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China’s Plan to Keep Sand from Swallowing the World

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Re: China’s Plan to Keep Sand from Swallowing the World

#21

Post by Linorm »

igravious wrote: post #5
donquichotte wrote: post #3

Maybe synergies can be used here! On HN 1 month ago: The World Is Running Out of Sand: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15739917

As noted in that discussion, there are different types of sand – (ironically?) the growing desert is not usable as a construction material; the individual grains are too small and spherical, in construction sand the grains are coarser and larger. Why is why we have the situation where Gulf states import some of the sand for their construction boom even though a huge proportion of their land is desert (that is to say…

According to some research papers [1] [2] it may be feasbible to use desert sand for concrete at least - However, my knowledge about construction is very limited so I may have misinterpreted the findings.

[1] https://www.researchgate.net/post/Is_it_possible_to_use_dese... [2] https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jamila_Abdalhmid/post/I...

Re: China’s Plan to Keep Sand from Swallowing the World

#22

Post by yorwba »

rayiner wrote: post #16

I suspect science writing like this is one reason why public trust in science is at a low. I read a passage like this: > But plenty of scientists remain unimpressed. Many of the trees, planted in places they don’t grow naturally, eventually die. The survivors soak up precious groundwater that native grasses and shrubs need, causing more soil degradation. Meanwhile, thousands of farmers and herders are forced off thei…

Would you have preferred a confident but unsupported statement? Maybe presenting a nuanced view undermines trust in science, but I think I prefer that to blind trust without understanding.

Re: China’s Plan to Keep Sand from Swallowing the World

#23

Post by eitland »

aidos wrote: post #15
Arnt wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's both moral and practical. It depends on the species, but in many cases the best way to get ten big trees quickly is to plant many more, maybe even a hundred. The young trees enjoy having dense company. As they grow each tree needs more room, so cut down a few every year.

From the article: >>>> The researchers’ biggest worry is that the trees are depleting subterranean aquifers so that eventually nothing will flourish. I know nothing about this subject so the above may be an issue, or it may not. What can you take away from the article? I'm sure there have been a great many displaced along the way by the project, is it going to be worth it in the end? It seems like it should be a grea…

Somewhat qualified guess (studied agriculture and forestry for 1.5 years):

If the desert expands that will most likely definitely destroy the areas.

And while trees will use a lot of water (somewhat depending on specie I think) they'd hopefully also provide protection against direct sunlight for a more diverse ecosystem to establish.

Compared to the Midwestern way of pumping groundwater only to grow seasonal crops this seems like a good step in a better direction.

Re: China’s Plan to Keep Sand from Swallowing the World

#24

Post by crimsonalucard »

People talk shit about china's one child policy but these guys know how to act decisively and restrict individual freedoms for the greater good ( i know the one child policy didnt have the intended consequences im more reffering to decisiveness and purpose behind such an action... there is no first world country that can pull off such a feat.)

Environmental problems which are largely based on over population can only be solved with drastic controversial action.

Re: China’s Plan to Keep Sand from Swallowing the World

#25

Post by phkahler »

bmn__ wrote: post #18
phkahler wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an advantage on Mars - it's already 100 percent nothing. We could try 1000 different species of plant, mold, lichens, or whatever. Anything that becomes self sustaining would be step in the right direction. The biggest problems on Mars are the temperature and the atmosphere, and I have no idea what can be done about those. Well I do, but they're such massive engineering projects as to be impractical.

Futurologist says: build glass domes. On Earth, it is very much in the realm of practicability and costs so little that it might surprise you. On Mars, the biggest costs are transport across outer space and industry bootstrapping. http://marshallbrain.com/mars.htm esp. chapter 7

One thought I had is this: Put superconducting cables around the planet at say 20-30deg north and south. Apply a huge current to provide a magnetic field to protect the atmosphere so that is may come back over time. We did the rough calculation and came up with something like 1 million Amp-Turns to get a decent planetary field but that seemed low to me and we never rechecked our work.

Re: China’s Plan to Keep Sand from Swallowing the World

#26

Post by throwaway2048 »

sand500 wrote: post #2

I wonder how we plan to terraform Mars if we can't even deal with a desert or two.

terraforming is pure scifi, the least hospitable place on earth is vastly more hospitable than the best place on mars, even after almost every conceivable planet scale disaster. Pretty much every technique that could be used to make mars more hospitable could be used on earth instead. We dont have to spend 20 million dollars a kilogram to get there either.

Its part of a futurist escapist fantasy where we have somewhere safe to go when we ruin the earth, so why worry about it right?

Re: China’s Plan to Keep Sand from Swallowing the World

#27

Post by JoeAltmaier »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #26
sand500 wrote: post #2

I wonder how we plan to terraform Mars if we can't even deal with a desert or two.

terraforming is pure scifi, the least hospitable place on earth is vastly more hospitable than the best place on mars, even after almost every conceivable planet scale disaster. Pretty much every technique that could be used to make mars more hospitable could be used on earth instead. We dont have to spend 20 million dollars a kilogram to get there either. Its part of a futurist escapist fantasy where we have somewhe…

I like to add here: why don't we try a colony on the top of Mt Everest first? It is so much easier than going to Mars, what with (some) air and water already there. But otherwise pretty comparable. And no rockets needed.

Re: China’s Plan to Keep Sand from Swallowing the World

#28

Post by dsq »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #26
sand500 wrote: post #2

I wonder how we plan to terraform Mars if we can't even deal with a desert or two.

terraforming is pure scifi, the least hospitable place on earth is vastly more hospitable than the best place on mars, even after almost every conceivable planet scale disaster. Pretty much every technique that could be used to make mars more hospitable could be used on earth instead. We dont have to spend 20 million dollars a kilogram to get there either. Its part of a futurist escapist fantasy where we have somewhe…

The way to develop technologies that will save the earth's environment is to go to space or other worlds where there are no NIMBYs or reactionary fanatics or existing corporate kleptocracies, develop them to maturity, and then redeploy on the mother planet. Commercial fusion power, for instance, will probably always remain 'thirty years from now' as long as the unholy alliance of fossil fuel incumbents and so-called 'Greens' continues.
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