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Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

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Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#21

Post by epicide »

rosser wrote: post #11
UncleEntity wrote: post #5

Haven't read TFA but I'm going to say the internet most definitely falls under 'interstate commerce' so California isn't able to regulate it.

California is most definitely within its rights to regulate businesses operating within the state. If an ISP wants to sell its service to CA residents, it can abide by CA laws.

Even if that's true, that's not even half the problem. Especially because of the public outcry, I wouldn't be surprised if ISPs even lower consumer prices to try and drive the point home of "told you so". Then, on the other side, they get to play mafia with internet-based businesses.

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#22

Post by AndyMcConachie »

The inter-state commerce clause allows Federal Law to preempt state law in this case. Congress has imbued the FCC with the power to regulate(see Chevron v EPA) exactly this. States have no reserved power to regulate the behavior of telecoms.

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#23

Post by AndyMcConachie »

UncleEntity wrote: post #5

Haven't read TFA but I'm going to say the internet most definitely falls under 'interstate commerce' so California isn't able to regulate it.

You're exactly right and I have no idea why you've been downvoted.

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#25

Post by UncleEntity »

rosser wrote: post #13
sova wrote: post #2

Ever heard of the Supremacy Clause?

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Going to go out on a limb here and say the very fact the FCC exists leads one to assume this is one of things delegated to the federal government -- at least in their opinion.

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#26

Post by danesparza »

rosser wrote: post #13
sova wrote: post #2

Ever heard of the Supremacy Clause?

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Citation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_...

If it's true for handguns, it's true for the Internet. I say Californians might have a shot at this (as would any other state)

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#27

Post by 0xfeba »

Posibyte wrote: post #12
UncleEntity wrote: post #5

Haven't read TFA but I'm going to say the internet most definitely falls under 'interstate commerce' so California isn't able to regulate it.

Can you elaborate on how this would fall under interstate commerce? As I see it, they'd be regulating how they treat in-state customers and their connections, not anything coming across the state-lines. i.e. They aren't saying Comcast isn't allowed to do things to a line for a customer in Utah.

The same way Gun-Free School Zones fall under the Commerce Clause, but with less of a stretch of the imagination.

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#28

Post by rosser »

UncleEntity wrote: post #25
rosser wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Going to go out on a limb here and say the very fact the FCC exists leads one to assume this is one of things delegated to the federal government -- at least in their opinion.

Pai has specifically claimed the FCC can pre-empt State-level Net Neutrality initiatives.

AFAIK, however, that's up to an appellate court to decide, which hasn't happened yet. (Another comment in another thread cites the recent case the FCC lost regarding its ability to pre-empt municipal broadband — see TN, NC v. FCC — which is probably somewhat dispositive.)

EDIT: also: "delegated to the United States by the Constitution". Note the emphasis. The FCC can assert all the authority it wants, but absent an Amendment to that effect, or a specific ruling on that question by a "court of competent authority", I don't believe the matter is nearly as settled as you suggest.

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#29

Post by shmerl »

AndyMcConachie wrote: post #22

The inter-state commerce clause allows Federal Law to preempt state law in this case. Congress has imbued the FCC with the power to regulate(see Chevron v EPA) exactly this. States have no reserved power to regulate the behavior of telecoms.

FCC failed to preempt local state laws that ban municipal broadband. How is that different? Or FCC only can do it when serving monopolists?

Re: Now that the FCC has repealed net neutrality, let’s adopt it in California

#30

Post by rosser »

UncleEntity wrote: post #18
Posibyte wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on how this would fall under interstate commerce? As I see it, they'd be regulating how they treat in-state customers and their connections, not anything coming across the state-lines. i.e. They aren't saying Comcast isn't allowed to do things to a line for a customer in Utah.

Sure, if the server and customer are both in Ca but if the server is elsewhere and they do their traffic shaping outside of state lines there isn't much that can be done. I never paid much attention to what they got up to before the feds stepped in but I kind of doubt it was a last mile problem, once the packet got that far why mess with it? But, knowing California, they'll do one of those "...and any packet destined…

Routing happens dynamically, but it very probably doesn't touch an ISP's pipes until very close to the "last mile" — especially when you're talking about the smaller ISPs who don't even have an inter-state presence.
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