Introducing Amazon Linux 2 • Hacker News Board

Re: Introducing Amazon Linux 2

#21

Post by geofft » Thu, Dec 14, 2017, 3:49 PM UTC

slgeorge wrote: post #20

dagw wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory, since the kernel is specifically tuned towards running on EC2 virtual machines (by the people who know EC2 virtual machines better than anyone) as opposed to 'generic' hardware, performance might be slightly better. Also, and for many more importantly, it's probably easier to get support from Amazon if you're using their official Linux as opposed to a third party distribution.

Your first point is not true compared to Ubuntu at least [0]. AWS is basically are repackaged version of KVM (the last time I checked), so there's no particular advantage. Ubuntu (and I'm sure Centos/RHEL) provide custom images which have the same optimised code. [0] I'm pretty sure it's true for CentOS / RHEL, I just don't know for a fact.

AWS is mostly Xen (they just introduced a KVM option https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/now-available-compute-inten... ), and there are a few things like "enhanced networking" where you get a performance boost if you're on a kernel with support but it's still functional if you're on any other kernel.

Re: Introducing Amazon Linux 2

#22

Post by geofft » Thu, Dec 14, 2017, 3:51 PM UTC

cheald wrote: post #18

lykr0n wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about you, but I like how systemd can restart my processes if they die. sysvinit is ancient; time to move on.

I've been managing all my application daemons with supervisord across systems for this reason - it's agnostic as to the underlying init system, can restart crashed daemons, and provides the same kind of "service up/down" functionality as sysv or systemd. Systemd can do quite a lot, but if you have to do any kind of orchestration across nonhomogenous machines, you can't necessarily count on it being in play.

The nice thing about systemd is that it works the same across various Linux distros (unlike even sysvinit!). So I've been solving this problem by pushing everyone to upgrade to a version that supports systemd. :-)

I would really like to see something UI-compatible with systemd that works on non-Linux, though.

Re: Introducing Amazon Linux 2

#23

Post by lscotte » Thu, Dec 14, 2017, 4:07 PM UTC

dagw wrote: post #10

make3 wrote: post #8

as an AWS noob, why would anyone use this over Centos or Ubuntu?

In theory, since the kernel is specifically tuned towards running on EC2 virtual machines (by the people who know EC2 virtual machines better than anyone) as opposed to 'generic' hardware, performance might be slightly better. Also, and for many more importantly, it's probably easier to get support from Amazon if you're using their official Linux as opposed to a third party distribution.

Ubuntu has kernels specifically tuned for different cloud providers in LTS releases. For AWS, it's the linux-aws package.

Re: Introducing Amazon Linux 2

#24

Post by lscotte » Thu, Dec 14, 2017, 4:13 PM UTC

lykr0n wrote: post #17

mvanbaak wrote: post #14

"It includes systemd service and systems manager as opposed to System V init system" I'm off to rewrite/test/fix all ansible and puppet modules so they support FreeBSD. I had hoped AWS was smart enough to stay sober, but no. Too bad, I liked AWS Linux.

I don't know about you, but I like how systemd can restart my processes if they die. sysvinit is ancient; time to move on.

Systemd is a huge improvement for sure. There's some effort involved in understanding new things, and this is one which has ultimately made our lives much easier. I say this as someone who maintains the OS for a large AWS deployment and has made the effort the understand it rather than run away in irrational fear.

Re: Introducing Amazon Linux 2

#25

Post by throwawaymanbot » Thu, Dec 14, 2017, 4:37 PM UTC

geofft wrote: post #22

cheald wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been managing all my application daemons with supervisord across systems for this reason - it's agnostic as to the underlying init system, can restart crashed daemons, and provides the same kind of "service up/down" functionality as sysv or systemd. Systemd can do quite a lot, but if you have to do any kind of orchestration across nonhomogenous machines, you can't necessarily count on it being in play.

The nice thing about systemd is that it works the same across various Linux distros (unlike even sysvinit!). So I've been solving this problem by pushing everyone to upgrade to a version that supports systemd. :-) I would really like to see something UI-compatible with systemd that works on non-Linux, though.

I swear the similarity of phrasing with SystemD lovers makes me think theres more to systemd love than just "its not sysvinit"

Re: Introducing Amazon Linux 2

#26

Post by tbortels » Thu, Dec 14, 2017, 4:48 PM UTC

mvanbaak wrote: post #14

"It includes systemd service and systems manager as opposed to System V init system" I'm off to rewrite/test/fix all ansible and puppet modules so they support FreeBSD. I had hoped AWS was smart enough to stay sober, but no. Too bad, I liked AWS Linux.

Yes, pity. The lack of systemd is a major driver for use of Amazon Linux for us and our efforts to get away from Red Hat. We won't be adopting AL 2 because of this (not if I can help it anyway). I had actually thought that AL not adopting systemd was a sign of clue, but it seems it was just slowness. Let's hope they leave the original AL around long enough to find alternatives we can trust.

Re: Introducing Amazon Linux 2

#27

Post by nailer » Thu, Dec 14, 2017, 6:50 PM UTC

lykr0n wrote: post #17

mvanbaak wrote: post #14

"It includes systemd service and systems manager as opposed to System V init system" I'm off to rewrite/test/fix all ansible and puppet modules so they support FreeBSD. I had hoped AWS was smart enough to stay sober, but no. Too bad, I liked AWS Linux.

I don't know about you, but I like how systemd can restart my processes if they die. sysvinit is ancient; time to move on.

Yeah ditto, avoided Amazon Linux for ages since I didn't want to replace my .service files with shell scripts, forever/monit etc, and logging to 'local4'.

Re: Introducing Amazon Linux 2

#28

Post by lykr0n » Thu, Dec 14, 2017, 8:47 PM UTC

tbortels wrote: post #26

mvanbaak wrote: post #14

"It includes systemd service and systems manager as opposed to System V init system" I'm off to rewrite/test/fix all ansible and puppet modules so they support FreeBSD. I had hoped AWS was smart enough to stay sober, but no. Too bad, I liked AWS Linux.

Yes, pity. The lack of systemd is a major driver for use of Amazon Linux for us and our efforts to get away from Red Hat. We won't be adopting AL 2 because of this (not if I can help it anyway). I had actually thought that AL not adopting systemd was a sign of clue, but it seems it was just slowness. Let's hope they leave the original AL around long enough to find alternatives we can trust.

Systemd, for all its flaws, is vastly superior to sysvinit. Running from it is only delaying the inevitable.

Red Hat is not systemd. You'll find it in Ubuntu, Debian, SuSE, Arch, and RHEL/CentOS/Scientific.

Re: Introducing Amazon Linux 2

#29

Post by yo-code-sucks » Sun, Dec 17, 2017, 9:56 AM UTC

mvanbaak wrote: post #14

"It includes systemd service and systems manager as opposed to System V init system" I'm off to rewrite/test/fix all ansible and puppet modules so they support FreeBSD. I had hoped AWS was smart enough to stay sober, but no. Too bad, I liked AWS Linux.

Suck a dick you fucking loser.