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Deus Vult – Social Networks in Crusader Kings 2

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Re: Deus Vult – Social Networks in Crusader Kings 2

#21

Post by DanAndersen »

jwdunne wrote: post #4

Oh man, I've sunk countless hours into CK2. Such a rich game and I highly recommend it. This post pretty much lays out a facet of what I love and alludes to the bigger picture: start with a historical setting and run with it, often diverging. One game I became the king of Ireland and then somehow the king of Britanny. I then only had female child heirs. They got overthrown and ended up cast out of Ireland. I was intr…

Paradox games like CK2 are great because they have enough complexity in them to create decent variety from game to game, so it's your own personal story that's unfolding. CK2 in particular, because of the human drama element, is very good at this.

The point about historical divergence is spot-on; a lot of the fun is in having some familiarity with the way things actually turned out, and comparing it with whatever ended up happening. During lulls in activity in my own kingdoms, for example, it's enjoyable just to look around the map and see what the heck is going on elsewhere.

Speaking of alternate history, I recently started getting into Hearts of Iron IV (which takes place during WW2), but actually have been getting a lot more enjoyment out of the mod "Kaiserreich" instead of the base game. Kaiserreich is an alt-history mod where Germany wins the First World War, and so by the time the game starts in 1936, the world is already quite different-yet-familiar (the US on the brink of a second civil war, France and Britain taken over by syndicalist revolutions, the British royal family exiled to Canada and attempting to retake the Home Islands, etc). Definitely recommend looking into it, if for no other reason than to read the lore on their project wiki ( http://kaiserreich.wikia.com/ ).

I've also thought about how interesting it would be to link up the Paradox games, and there are importing tools that kind of do the job, but having everything in a single game would be hard to achieve and still have the deep complexity that we enjoy. Modelling the feudal world of medieval Europe is fundamentally different than the nation-state-focused world in EU4 a few centuries later. I fear that any attempt to merge the two would end up like the Civilization games, which achieves a start-to-finish continuity but at the expense of losing a lot of interesting detail.

Re: Deus Vult – Social Networks in Crusader Kings 2

#22

Post by jwdunne »

DanAndersen wrote: post #21
jwdunne wrote: post #4

Oh man, I've sunk countless hours into CK2. Such a rich game and I highly recommend it. This post pretty much lays out a facet of what I love and alludes to the bigger picture: start with a historical setting and run with it, often diverging. One game I became the king of Ireland and then somehow the king of Britanny. I then only had female child heirs. They got overthrown and ended up cast out of Ireland. I was intr…

Paradox games like CK2 are great because they have enough complexity in them to create decent variety from game to game, so it's your own personal story that's unfolding. CK2 in particular, because of the human drama element, is very good at this. The point about historical divergence is spot-on; a lot of the fun is in having some familiarity with the way things actually turned out, and comparing it with whatever end…

I've been meaning to play HOI for a while. I was put off by the short time frame it's set in - feels like I need to understand how they handle that compared to multi-hundred year timeframes in EU4/CK2. Mind Vicky is roughly 100 years but still great replay value but still 100 years is longer than a decade or two? The mod might be the push I need to check it out :)

By "link up", I didn't mean the same game. I meant something like a save converter that takes your CK2 save and you can use it to seed the world in EU4. Then it's just a case of doing that up the chain and filling in gaps with new games (I believe timeframes of CK, EU and V sit back to back).

Re: Deus Vult – Social Networks in Crusader Kings 2

#23

Post by ameister14 »

_jgdh wrote: post #15
JCSato wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to ignore the point being illustrated, nor the tongue-in-cheek nature of it, but a symbol on the flag of Nazi Germany and a Latin phrase from the middle ages that some undesirables on the internet use don't really seem comparable in scale, and scale is the important thing here. MAGA, for instance, was memetic, so if you use/repurpose it, there's a relatively unambiguous origin. Deus Vult in this context, not so m…

I get your point - if the swastika is used in a western country, its almost certainly a Neo-Nazi using it, not a middle-aged Indian woman, even though millions of Indians use the swastika in a religious context every day. However, by the same token, if someone says Deus Vult, its statistically far more likely to be a Neo-Nazi/far right nut rather than a fan of Crusader Kings.

I don't agree with that - there are more fans of crusader kings than there are Neo-Nazis.

Re: Deus Vult – Social Networks in Crusader Kings 2

#24

Post by literallycancer »

_jgdh wrote: post #19
Banthum wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5 seconds of Googling reveals: >On July 4, 1187, the Muslim forces of Saladin (Salah al-Din) decisively defeated the crusader army south of the Horns of Hattin in Palestine, capturing Guy, king of Jerusalem; Reginald of Châtillon, Saladin’s enemy whom he personally killed; over two hundred Knights Hospitaller and Templar Knightly Orders whom he ordered to be killed; and many crusaders whom he ransomed. The remaining…

I'm glad you did your 5 seconds of googling - but the distinction I was drawing was the difference in treatment meted out to combatants and non-combatants. Saladin sold soldiers into slavery. He spared civilians. The Crusaders made no such distinction. Yes, slavery sucked but between mass murder and selling into slavery, the latter was the lesser of the two evils in the 12th century. The alternative - allowing enemy…

>When people today echo this battle cry, it is exactly this kind of behaviour that they are implicitly endorsing.

No. It may be that you interpret it that way, but that's on you. The same way as if you get triggered by the Latvian fire cross or similar examples elsewhere.

Re: Deus Vult – Social Networks in Crusader Kings 2

#25

Post by WesleyLivesay »

madez wrote: post #6
jwdunne wrote: post #4

Oh man, I've sunk countless hours into CK2. Such a rich game and I highly recommend it. This post pretty much lays out a facet of what I love and alludes to the bigger picture: start with a historical setting and run with it, often diverging. One game I became the king of Ireland and then somehow the king of Britanny. I then only had female child heirs. They got overthrown and ended up cast out of Ireland. I was intr…

Paradox is doing most things right, not like some of their competitors. No pay-to-win or other ingame buys, but optional DLCs, that actually enhance the game, and constant development and care over years for their games, and excellent multiplatform support. Also, they are successfully producing some of the games with the highest (hours of gameplay)/(price) ratio, second only to some indie games and the unbeatable Dwa…

I like that they are doing, but I think their DLC strategy is starting to cause some concern in various online gaming circles.

People loved it with CK2 because it expands the game so much, and it was unlike what they were doing before. This helped people forgive the fact that the base game was just okay at launch. Contrast that to HoI4 where the base game was not fantastic at launch (but probably not much worse than CK2 at launch in terms of stability and systems) and then the DLC train started and I saw a lot more negative comments online. There were similar conversations around the Stellaris launch "Oh they are going to make us pay or features that should have been in the game in post launch DLC".

That could just mirror changes in players being hyper-sensitive to DLC/Monetization strategies these days, and probably don't bother the people who are really into Paradox games and put hundreds if not thousands of hours into them.

I am very interested to see what they do next with Crusader Kings, since they have mentioned a few times they plan on ending the DLC soon. Transitioning to a CK3 seems incredibly difficult given how barebones it will feel.

Re: Deus Vult – Social Networks in Crusader Kings 2

#26

Post by distances »

jwdunne wrote: post #8
madez wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paradox is doing most things right, not like some of their competitors. No pay-to-win or other ingame buys, but optional DLCs, that actually enhance the game, and constant development and care over years for their games, and excellent multiplatform support. Also, they are successfully producing some of the games with the highest (hours of gameplay)/(price) ratio, second only to some indie games and the unbeatable Dwa…

Yes. The first time I played a paradox game, I closed it due to the overwhelming UI. Takes a bit of perseverance if you want a rich, fully featured strategy experience. After a Paradox game, although fun, Civ just doesn't cut it.

Indeed. After Paradox games Civ definitely has a "casual strategy" feeling to it. Plus there are simply no emergent storylines forming in Civ games. I do still enjoy both, though.

Re: Deus Vult – Social Networks in Crusader Kings 2

#28

Post by distances »

WesleyLivesay wrote: post #25
madez wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paradox is doing most things right, not like some of their competitors. No pay-to-win or other ingame buys, but optional DLCs, that actually enhance the game, and constant development and care over years for their games, and excellent multiplatform support. Also, they are successfully producing some of the games with the highest (hours of gameplay)/(price) ratio, second only to some indie games and the unbeatable Dwa…

I like that they are doing, but I think their DLC strategy is starting to cause some concern in various online gaming circles. People loved it with CK2 because it expands the game so much, and it was unlike what they were doing before. This helped people forgive the fact that the base game was just okay at launch. Contrast that to HoI4 where the base game was not fantastic at launch (but probably not much worse than…

Civilization solved this by including most of the content in Civ5 DLCs to the base game in Civ6. They did start the DLC train immediately with highly priced extra civilizations though, and got major flak for doing that.

Re: Deus Vult – Social Networks in Crusader Kings 2

#29

Post by jwdunne »

distances wrote: post #28
WesleyLivesay wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like that they are doing, but I think their DLC strategy is starting to cause some concern in various online gaming circles. People loved it with CK2 because it expands the game so much, and it was unlike what they were doing before. This helped people forgive the fact that the base game was just okay at launch. Contrast that to HoI4 where the base game was not fantastic at launch (but probably not much worse than…

Civilization solved this by including most of the content in Civ5 DLCs to the base game in Civ6. They did start the DLC train immediately with highly priced extra civilizations though, and got major flak for doing that.

I read about that actually. They use a 3rds model: retain a 3rd of existing systems, improve on a 3rd of existing systems and bring in a 3rd of totally new gameplay systems.

I don't bother with non-gameplay DLC. I don't get these story packs. I'd prefer DLC that overhauls some aspect and provides deeper gameplay.

Re: Deus Vult – Social Networks in Crusader Kings 2

#30

Post by alien_at_work »

jwdunne wrote: post #4

Oh man, I've sunk countless hours into CK2. Such a rich game and I highly recommend it. This post pretty much lays out a facet of what I love and alludes to the bigger picture: start with a historical setting and run with it, often diverging. One game I became the king of Ireland and then somehow the king of Britanny. I then only had female child heirs. They got overthrown and ended up cast out of Ireland. I was intr…

They do have an importer between all games, afaik. I know you can take the saves from CK2 and import them into EU4. It's a DLC on steam.
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