A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows • Hacker News Board

Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#21

Post by r00fus » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 12:01 AM UTC

d1zzy wrote: post #16

I grew up in a Communist dictatorship in Eastern Europe. Capitalism is far from being perfect but it was much better for my friends and I than communism. It wasn't as good for older people that lived most of their life in the previous regime tho (but we cannot say how capitalism would have treated them if they haven't had lived almost all their lives in communism). I do not know what the solution to capitalism's prob…

Does democratic socialism not have a place in your solution set?

The idea that stakeholders >= shareholders should be enshrined in our governing policy.

Capitalism has a flaw in that if it isn't actively maintained (i.e., anti-trust, regulations, tariffs to prevent abuses) it simply becomes oligarchy (USA is an oligarchy in all but name).

Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#22

Post by jboynyc » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 12:08 AM UTC

incompatible wrote: post #11

It's not hard to see the flaws in capitalism, but hard to come up with a decent alternative. Capitalism is the private ownership of assets used for production, such as factories and land. One alternative is government ownership, but that has a terrible track record. What other systems are possible? Non-profit organisations controlled by their employees?

Good questions, but you ask as if there were no intellectuals out there discussing postcapitalist futures or social movements trying to build (or "prefigure") a postcapitalist world. Granted, they often aren't very visible, but publications like Jacobin are a good way to keep up with these efforts.

Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#23

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 12:09 AM UTC

brucephillips wrote: post #19

DoreenMichele wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Harvard University survey, which polled young adults between ages 18 and 29, found that 51 percent of respondents do not support capitalism. Just 42 percent said they support it. The results of the survey are difficult to interpret, pollsters noted. Capitalism can mean different things to different people, and the newest generation of voters is frustrated with the status quo, broadly speaking. If you do a survey…

By any definition of capitalism , the iphone wouldn't have happened without it, so you can't claim that ambiguity in the question would prevent hypocrisy.

[deleted]

Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#24

Post by dv_dt » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 12:09 AM UTC

d1zzy wrote: post #16

I grew up in a Communist dictatorship in Eastern Europe. Capitalism is far from being perfect but it was much better for my friends and I than communism. It wasn't as good for older people that lived most of their life in the previous regime tho (but we cannot say how capitalism would have treated them if they haven't had lived almost all their lives in communism). I do not know what the solution to capitalism's prob…

People get way too hung up on what I'd consider the theoretical government + economic label a place runs under, and overlook the power structures and how the powerful operate with respect to the needs of people. Along those lines, maybe we have something labelled democracy in America, but the power structures responsiveness and effectiveness (esp with the current tax vote), is getting closer to a communist dictatorship rather than moving away.

Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#25

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 12:11 AM UTC

brucephillips wrote: post #19

DoreenMichele wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Harvard University survey, which polled young adults between ages 18 and 29, found that 51 percent of respondents do not support capitalism. Just 42 percent said they support it. The results of the survey are difficult to interpret, pollsters noted. Capitalism can mean different things to different people, and the newest generation of voters is frustrated with the status quo, broadly speaking. If you do a survey…

By any definition of capitalism , the iphone wouldn't have happened without it, so you can't claim that ambiguity in the question would prevent hypocrisy.

[deleted]

Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#26

Post by brucephillips » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 12:11 AM UTC

dv_dt wrote: post #24

d1zzy wrote: post #16

I grew up in a Communist dictatorship in Eastern Europe. Capitalism is far from being perfect but it was much better for my friends and I than communism. It wasn't as good for older people that lived most of their life in the previous regime tho (but we cannot say how capitalism would have treated them if they haven't had lived almost all their lives in communism). I do not know what the solution to capitalism's prob…

People get way too hung up on what I'd consider the theoretical government + economic label a place runs under, and overlook the power structures and how the powerful operate with respect to the needs of people. Along those lines, maybe we have something labelled democracy in America, but the power structures responsiveness and effectiveness (esp with the current tax vote), is getting closer to a communist dictatorsh…

How so? Didn't the people elect congress?

Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#27

Post by gremlinsinc » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 12:16 AM UTC

brucephillips wrote: post #26

dv_dt wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People get way too hung up on what I'd consider the theoretical government + economic label a place runs under, and overlook the power structures and how the powerful operate with respect to the needs of people. Along those lines, maybe we have something labelled democracy in America, but the power structures responsiveness and effectiveness (esp with the current tax vote), is getting closer to a communist dictatorsh…

How so? Didn't the people elect congress?

No, the people do not elect congress, until every congressman/woman runs without a single dollar from donors, and uses only public platforms to promote themselves.

Money buys politicians, which buys elections which buys what they do/don't do in congress. It's all an organized but legal crime syndicate. Extortion, bribery, etc are legal in politics, because politicians make the rules.

Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#28

Post by incompatible » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 12:17 AM UTC

jboynyc wrote: post #22

incompatible wrote: post #11

It's not hard to see the flaws in capitalism, but hard to come up with a decent alternative. Capitalism is the private ownership of assets used for production, such as factories and land. One alternative is government ownership, but that has a terrible track record. What other systems are possible? Non-profit organisations controlled by their employees?

Good questions, but you ask as if there were no intellectuals out there discussing postcapitalist futures or social movements trying to build (or "prefigure") a postcapitalist world. Granted, they often aren't very visible, but publications like Jacobin are a good way to keep up with these efforts.

Do you have any specific articles?

Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#29

Post by goalieca » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 12:18 AM UTC

gsam wrote: post #3

It's no surprise people reject concepts they don't adequately understand. I don't know who exactly you could blame here. But if they all understood what it meant, I don't believe nearly as many would be rejecting it.

That’s quite the accusation. I understand capitalism quite well. It often optimized the wrong thing. I have no problem with being in the socialist democracy of canuckistan with regulations and all.

Re: A majority of millennials now reject capitalism, poll shows

#30

Post by brucephillips » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 12:19 AM UTC

gremlinsinc wrote: post #27

brucephillips wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? Didn't the people elect congress?

No, the people do not elect congress, until every congressman/woman runs without a single dollar from donors, and uses only public platforms to promote themselves. Money buys politicians, which buys elections which buys what they do/don't do in congress. It's all an organized but legal crime syndicate. Extortion, bribery, etc are legal in politics, because politicians make the rules.

I agree we should get the money out of politics, but let's be honest with our terms. The people do elect congress, though corrupt money is allowed to influence the people.