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Mail-Order CRISPR Kits Allow Anyone to Hack DNA

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Mail-Order CRISPR Kits Allow Anyone to Hack DNA

#21

Post by 1001101 »

ilamont wrote: post #4

Finally, what about the nightmare scenario: Is CRISPR so easy to use that we need to worry about biohackers—either accidentally or intentionally—creating dangerous pathogens? Carroll and others think that the danger of putting CRISPR in the hands of the average person is relatively low. “People have imagined scenarios where scientists could use CRISPR to generate a virulent pathogen, ” he says. “How big is the risk?…

> It's hard for "normal" people to imagine how sociopaths or those with destructive aims will behave when given flexible tools like this.

Given enough time, you just need one misanthropic individual.

Edit: and it doesn't just need to be CRISPR. It could be AI, fusion, you name it. The power of the individual to impose their will on larger and larger numbers of people and parts of the planet keeps increasing with technology.

Re: Mail-Order CRISPR Kits Allow Anyone to Hack DNA

#22

Post by cirgue »

Gatsky wrote: post #16
ilamont wrote: post #4

Finally, what about the nightmare scenario: Is CRISPR so easy to use that we need to worry about biohackers—either accidentally or intentionally—creating dangerous pathogens? Carroll and others think that the danger of putting CRISPR in the hands of the average person is relatively low. “People have imagined scenarios where scientists could use CRISPR to generate a virulent pathogen, ” he says. “How big is the risk?…

As other people have said, it has been possible to make bioweapons for a long time, but engineered bioterrorism hasn't happened. There are a few reasons I think. Firstly, there is a cultural disconnect between fundamentalism and science heavy weapons development. In the same way that ISIS is not building gigawatt lasers or rail guns, the groups capable of terrorism don't prioritise research. They are often very atavi…

Aum Shinrikyo actually had a bio-weapons program that failed, seemingly due to a lack of technical expertise: http://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/revisiting-aum-shinriky...

Re: Mail-Order CRISPR Kits Allow Anyone to Hack DNA

#23

Post by has2k1 »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #10

I am not afraid of what "biohackers" can do with CRISPR. It's very hard to come up with "pandemic viruses", even for nature, let alone for scientists, or even hobbyists. At worst, the capabilities CRISPR and other techniques from synthetic biology give to genuine researchers will offset any mischief a hobbyist can do.

The democratisation/commoditization of a technology increases the probability that any given one capability of that technology will be discovered [1]. If what you think of as "very hard" is rooted in historical and present capabilities, those with angst on the issue are uncertain how long it will remain "very hard". Given that there is radical change, I do not think that sense of dread is misplaced.

[1] This is no a frivolous statistical argument. It helps establish a lower threshold and when other factors are considered the effect is strictly increased. The are some counter reasons, they help to think about he problem, but they are less convincing.

Re: Mail-Order CRISPR Kits Allow Anyone to Hack DNA

#24

Post by ben_w »

api wrote: post #9
ilamont wrote: post #4

Finally, what about the nightmare scenario: Is CRISPR so easy to use that we need to worry about biohackers—either accidentally or intentionally—creating dangerous pathogens? Carroll and others think that the danger of putting CRISPR in the hands of the average person is relatively low. “People have imagined scenarios where scientists could use CRISPR to generate a virulent pathogen, ” he says. “How big is the risk?…

When I was a bio undergrad student I learned once (in discussion with a professor) about a disturbingly simple and effective GMO path to weaponized microbes discovered back in the 70s by some bio-weapons researchers. This was long before CRISPR. Totally ingenious, simple, and absolute nightmare fuel. I will not repeat it here. The ideas are out there but I'm not going to help anyone find it. Suffice to say that I thi…

I'm not surprised to learn such a pathway exists, but I was surprised it was around in the 70s. And then I realised what you were probably talking about.

For what it's worth, I think I know how to make a directed energy weapon that could cause 50% probabilty of lethal effects that are only noticable hours afterwards (you could probably get a lethal shot even if you power it with a potato battery, too); and I realised a few years ago that when I was 9 years old I already knew enough basic chemistry to make a chemical weapon that could kill everyone on a London underground station. I'm neither a chemist nor a physicist, these are both things other people invented and I just saw a way they could be abused.

Despite that, I don't fear terrorists. They're demonstrably idiots, because it took them how long to realise that guns are highly effective tools for killing lots of people quickly? And then they decided to switch from guns to mimicing Carmageddon?

Edit:

Just to add, yes, I agree, ban it. All it takes is one, so the risk outweighs any benefit from encouraging more biologists.

Re: Mail-Order CRISPR Kits Allow Anyone to Hack DNA

#25

Post by api »

ben_w wrote: post #24
api wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was a bio undergrad student I learned once (in discussion with a professor) about a disturbingly simple and effective GMO path to weaponized microbes discovered back in the 70s by some bio-weapons researchers. This was long before CRISPR. Totally ingenious, simple, and absolute nightmare fuel. I will not repeat it here. The ideas are out there but I'm not going to help anyone find it. Suffice to say that I thi…

I'm not surprised to learn such a pathway exists, but I was surprised it was around in the 70s. And then I realised what you were probably talking about. For what it's worth, I think I know how to make a directed energy weapon that could cause 50% probabilty of lethal effects that are only noticable hours afterwards (you could probably get a lethal shot even if you power it with a potato battery, too); and I realised…

Guns don't self-replicate. It only takes one.

Re: Mail-Order CRISPR Kits Allow Anyone to Hack DNA

#27

Post by ihaveahadron »

like anything this will cause problems until it gets figured out by society. eventually it'll be like wearing glasses. this is a history take on this. sorry I'm the history and nacisicist guy until I get more edumacated on computers

maybe you geniuses can make some kind of system where people could go to school who otherwise can't. faggots. we could call it something crazy like "government send people to school" or something

faggots

Re: Mail-Order CRISPR Kits Allow Anyone to Hack DNA

#28

Post by ska »

api wrote: post #20
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been worrying about this since the late 90s. It's so easy to create and release a zero-resistance >99% kill rate pandemic nightmare that I absolutely agree. And the power of the Internet makes it trivially easy to research and design that nightmare. CRISPR is the equivalent of selling megaton nukes on Amazon.

99% is tough for various evolutionary theoretic reasons, but another bubonic plague is a hell of a lot easier. These things are more dangerous than nukes. Any technology for creating GMOs should be regulated and licensed for the same reason that we regulate and license fissile material. This should remain true until and unless we can stop killing and hating each other and until a decade goes by without some nut openi…

relevant book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Plague

Re: Mail-Order CRISPR Kits Allow Anyone to Hack DNA

#29

Post by mrkstu »

devereaux wrote: post #6

Why a moral panic instead of celebrating the achievement? xx years ago, mail-order computer kits allowed absolutely anyone to hack code (and, gasp! illegally copy software or create computer viruses!) yy years ago, mail-order color printers and scanners allowed absolutely anyone to hack paper (and, gasp! forge documents) Is this part of a war against freedom? Then we are inconsistent. We should also lament on how Int…

CRISPR allows germ-line propagating modifications. Think about creating a combo modification that expresses itself only after a 2nd or 3rd generation but also increases reproduction success for intervening generations- you could wipe out whole species, in a fairly straightforward manner.

A modified flu could deliver a 'Children of Men' style germline infertility. This is like making everyone a little Kim Jong-un.

Re: Mail-Order CRISPR Kits Allow Anyone to Hack DNA

#30

Post by colechristensen »

ben_w wrote: post #14
kanzure wrote: post #11

Here's a transcript of a recent talk given by Josiah Zayner: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/diy-human-gene-therapy-wit... [20:40] “If you look at Step 3 - which is, uh, you know, I like steps and lists, they are awesome - uhm, there are actually websites out there that have this infrastructure completely built. You can go in, type in the name of a gene. Not even the name, you could type in the name you think a gen…

Back in the days of Mac OS classic, there was a tool called ResEdit. You could use it to explore and modify apps. Or the core OS. While it was running. It warned you this was a bad idea, but I did it anyway. It took ten years before I saw a computer lock up that hard again. That’s how I see humans DIY hacking their own genome. If you’re lucky you’ll get what you were after. If not, you now have sexuality transmissibl…

It doesn't really work like that though. The genes that cause much of your form dictate growth processes between embryo and adulthood. If you could change them everywhere you wouldn't change at all.

But it's also not how CRISPR/CAS9 works either. Gene therapies usually involve a process of extracting stem cells, modifying a small number of them in vitro, growing them, and then either using them to grow tissues out of the body for later implantation, or injecting them into targeted tissues.

It's not an injection you take that goes out and edits every cell and you magically change shape. It makes for good scifi, not so much good science.

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