I can see why people with analytical minds can play chess well and create good financial models.
I don't think that learning to play chess better helps one create better financial models.
Chess master Lev Alburt teaches strategy, patience, and prognostication
21–30 of 33 posts
Re: Chess master Lev Alburt teaches strategy, patience, and prognostication
#22I can see why people with analytical minds can play chess well and create good financial models. I don't think that learning to play chess better helps one create better financial models.
I agree that this claim is false: “If you study chess, then you will be a better trader.”
On the other hand, I do think it’s beneficial to exercise the muscle of strategic thought and quick decision making. Maybe it’s poker instead of chess. But I think the general class of hobby is beneficial.
Re: Chess master Lev Alburt teaches strategy, patience, and prognostication
#23I can see why people with analytical minds can play chess well and create good financial models. I don't think that learning to play chess better helps one create better financial models.
I agree that this claim is false: “If you study chess, then you will be a better trader.” On the other hand, I do think it’s beneficial to exercise the muscle of strategic thought and quick decision making. Maybe it’s poker instead of chess. But I think the general class of hobby is beneficial.
That's the explanation I often hear that I find suspicious. It's not the same muscle.
Chess is a game with complete information, trading isn't. This is an important distinction, heuristics are very different. Maybe poker is better, but then there is opportunity cost. You can get better results by studying applied statistics or another subject matter area closer to trading.
I was playing chess competitively when I was young and am doing financial models for a living now. I don't think any skill or learning transferred.
Re: Chess master Lev Alburt teaches strategy, patience, and prognostication
#24Is a chess coach like Lev Alburt worth the money to someone who does play chess at a professional level? Does a world class coach make a big difference when we're talking about amateur chess players? Obviously, there are other reasons to go to a guy like Lev for lessons (the conversation, social cache etc.), I'm just curious as an amateur chess player if seeking someone out like Lev would make a notable difference in…
Off topic - an interesting observation by economist Tyler Cowen in his book "Average is Over".
Tyler talks a lot about the role of computers that can surpass humans in various tasks, and looks at chess as an example (he was a highly-ranked Chess player when he was younger). He also talks a lot about education, especially with regards to the government's role in it.
He at some point mentions that chess players have gotten much better over the last 20 years, with the rise of chess-playing and chess-analyzing computer programs. He looks at this as an interesting natural experiment in an area of education that is highly optimized, and sees what a huge impact education-via-computers has had (as contrasted with usually a government-run classical educational establishment). I don't even remember his conclusion, but I though the anecdote was fascinating.
I highly recommend the book, btw.
Re: Chess master Lev Alburt teaches strategy, patience, and prognostication
#25Is a chess coach like Lev Alburt worth the money to someone who does play chess at a professional level? Does a world class coach make a big difference when we're talking about amateur chess players? Obviously, there are other reasons to go to a guy like Lev for lessons (the conversation, social cache etc.), I'm just curious as an amateur chess player if seeking someone out like Lev would make a notable difference in…
There is a massive difference in the role of coaches for high level players and lower or mid level players. The key to improving at chess for lower level players, and the very thing that means almost none do to any significant degree, is lots and lots of work that isn't necessarily that exciting. For instance tactical exercises where you analyze a position and determine a winning (or drawing) sequence are absolutely…
Worth reading Josh Waitzkin, and also listening to pod casts with Tim Ferris.
This article mentions Josh's advice on end games teaching principles: http://chessimprover.com/spending-more-time-on-endgames/
Re: Chess master Lev Alburt teaches strategy, patience, and prognostication
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree that this claim is false: “If you study chess, then you will be a better trader.” On the other hand, I do think it’s beneficial to exercise the muscle of strategic thought and quick decision making. Maybe it’s poker instead of chess. But I think the general class of hobby is beneficial.
That's the explanation I often hear that I find suspicious. It's not the same muscle. Chess is a game with complete information, trading isn't. This is an important distinction, heuristics are very different. Maybe poker is better, but then there is opportunity cost. You can get better results by studying applied statistics or another subject matter area closer to trading. I was playing chess competitively when I was…
Sounds like we have similar backgrounds and careers.
I can’t think of any way of conducting a study to test a hypothesis.
I suppose I would say that, strictly speaking, chess is nothing more than a game of complete information, that has a big search space, filled with interesting corners.
On the other hand, when most non-experts play OTB, much of the thought is psychological — the classic leveling of “what is my opponent trying to do, and thinking I’m trying to do, and therefore trying to do...”
Re: Chess master Lev Alburt teaches strategy, patience, and prognostication
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
You get an initial rating by playing a number of tournament games against rated opponents. The results of every rated game (played at tournaments etc) are reported to a rating body. Back when I played (low level) competitively, rating lists were published every couple of months in paper form; nowadays it's all online, of course.
>The results of every rated game (played at tournaments etc) are reported to a rating body Sounds like another instance of centralization that must be disrupted by the blockchain
You can chess go on lichess.com and get a rating by playing games
Re: Chess master Lev Alburt teaches strategy, patience, and prognostication
#28Is a chess coach like Lev Alburt worth the money to someone who does play chess at a professional level? Does a world class coach make a big difference when we're talking about amateur chess players? Obviously, there are other reasons to go to a guy like Lev for lessons (the conversation, social cache etc.), I'm just curious as an amateur chess player if seeking someone out like Lev would make a notable difference in…
Off topic - an interesting observation by economist Tyler Cowen in his book "Average is Over". Tyler talks a lot about the role of computers that can surpass humans in various tasks, and looks at chess as an example (he was a highly-ranked Chess player when he was younger). He also talks a lot about education, especially with regards to the government's role in it. He at some point mentions that chess players have go…
Chess players have got better as measured by the number of moves the computer agrees with, which you'd expect, because they're preparing 30 moves in the opening and learning positions from tablebases that were historically thought to be drawn or lost etc. I'd need more convincing that we can measure skill timelessly. Also the money's at the super grandmaster scale seems pretty good these days.
That said, the fact that you've been able to play stronger and stronger players on your computer and in your pocket over the last 20 years must have made a difference.
Re: Chess master Lev Alburt teaches strategy, patience, and prognostication
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is a massive difference in the role of coaches for high level players and lower or mid level players. The key to improving at chess for lower level players, and the very thing that means almost none do to any significant degree, is lots and lots of work that isn't necessarily that exciting. For instance tactical exercises where you analyze a position and determine a winning (or drawing) sequence are absolutely…
Worth reading Josh Waitzkin, and also listening to pod casts with Tim Ferris. This article mentions Josh's advice on end games teaching principles: http://chessimprover.com/spending-more-time-on-endgames/
I love all of Waitzkin's stuff, I've spent many hours under his tutelage via Chessmaster, and I've followed his subsequent career with interest. But am I correct in remembering that his fundamental disillusionment with chess came when he had to start learning positionally and strategically instead of tactically? I do agree that people should spend vastly more time on endgames, certainly more than they do on openings, but I'd always thought of him as a buccaneering, tactical player, and that colours a lot of his advice.
Re: Chess master Lev Alburt teaches strategy, patience, and prognostication
#30A question I was thinking about this week: Why do some GM's drop in peak performance? It's common to see players have a golden age of performance where they are near unbeatable. But unlike physical sports, GM's don't exactly suffer from physical deterioration do they?