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China’s AI Awakening

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Re: China’s AI Awakening

#21

Post by dforrestwilson »

it_learnses wrote: post #16

Scientists like Ng ought to consider the repercussions of their actions when they decide to aid Chinese companies, and by extension, the Chinese govt with cutting edge research. They are basically collaborating with the enemy that stands against pretty much everything that the west granted them (scientists like Ng who were born here and given the opportunities).

? What exactly did the west grant them? They're catching up after decades of communism, and creeping towards becoming a dictatorship for Xi. That will likely negatively impact their growth far more than the actions (or inactions) of the West.

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#22

Post by it_learnses »

exelius wrote: post #13
idibidiart wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a good point but China is a dictatorship and a censoring anti-democracy regime. I can't imagine putting up with that either.

Chinese culture values harmony and stability over individualism and total freedom. The actions of the individual glorify the group; and they view "dictators" as more of a "father-like figurehead". They look at the US and see the problems we have (crime, gun control, health care, etc) and can point to their own society and say "well, we solved all of those so our system is better." Many young Chinese who were educated…

Understandable for Chinese nationals to go back. But for someone like Ng, who was born and educated here, it seems very irresponsible.

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#23

Post by exelius »

tw1010 wrote: post #15
exelius wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much of the interesting work is done by Chinese nationals, many of whom feel the startup field in the US is slanted towards white people, so they go back to China and take their knowledge with them. US research institutes are top-notch, but our casual racism and xenophobia are killing us. Not that the Chinese aren't also racist and xenophobic, but the pendulum of power is definitely swinging back across the Pacific.

I live in a country outside the US (not China) but every time people from the US talk about us they have this same story, which seems to come from US news sources, which is nowhere close to what is actually going on. That makes me wonder, is the same thing going on for China? I keep hearing on HN this same story "China is anti-democratic and anti-innovation, nothing interesting goes on there". But how much of that is…

Americans tend to have difficulty believing that others can possibly have different values. Part of the core of American beliefs is that Democracy is the natural state for all nations; and I'm not sure that's entirely true. It feels like there is a tipping point of population size where an individualistic society just tramples over the tragedy of the commons, and collectivist societies introduce controls and social pressures to prevent it.

I expect World War 3 will eventually be fought over these differences; they are just too irreconcilable and eventually the Chinese are going to feel the need to impose some limits on the US -- likely over environmental issues. China will feel the need to "save the planet from US ignorance" once they feel they have the power to do so, and the US will disagree that they have the power, so China will have to prove it militarily.

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#24

Post by jmh530 »

tw1010 wrote: post #15
exelius wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much of the interesting work is done by Chinese nationals, many of whom feel the startup field in the US is slanted towards white people, so they go back to China and take their knowledge with them. US research institutes are top-notch, but our casual racism and xenophobia are killing us. Not that the Chinese aren't also racist and xenophobic, but the pendulum of power is definitely swinging back across the Pacific.

I live in a country outside the US (not China) but every time people from the US talk about us they have this same story, which seems to come from US news sources, which is nowhere close to what is actually going on. That makes me wonder, is the same thing going on for China? I keep hearing on HN this same story "China is anti-democratic and anti-innovation, nothing interesting goes on there". But how much of that is…

You're under the mistaken impression that people in the U.S. care about what is happening in other countries. At most like 10% care in anything more than a cursory way.

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#25

Post by it_learnses »

dforrestwilson wrote: post #21
it_learnses wrote: post #16

Scientists like Ng ought to consider the repercussions of their actions when they decide to aid Chinese companies, and by extension, the Chinese govt with cutting edge research. They are basically collaborating with the enemy that stands against pretty much everything that the west granted them (scientists like Ng who were born here and given the opportunities).

? What exactly did the west grant them? They're catching up after decades of communism, and creeping towards becoming a dictatorship for Xi. That will likely negatively impact their growth far more than the actions (or inactions) of the West.

Ng was born and educated in the west. That's the point I'm making.

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#26

Post by pavanred »

monkmartinez wrote: post #18
shadowmint wrote: post #14

Extremely relevant quote from the talented Mr Ng: > “When the Chinese government announces a plan like this, it has significant implications for the country and the economy,” says Andrew Ng, a prominent AI expert who previously oversaw AI technology and strategy at China’s biggest online search company, Baidu. “It’s a very strong signal to everyone that things will happen.” ie. There is going to be a tonne of money p…

> ...but anyone sitting here scoffing that China can’t make itself a world leader in a field by simply pouring money and support onto the problem needs a serious history lesson. They have before, and there is every indiction they will again, here with this. What are they currently leading?

I would guess manufacturing

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#27

Post by nopinsight »

nopinsight wrote: post #19

Key competitive advantages of China are their strength in quantitative skills, a huge population, and the hard working and competitive culture of the populace. An objective measure is PISA results [1]. When comparing with even the best performing US state, Massachusetts, China has many more top performers in Math, as a proportion of population [2]. (In 2015 only four provinces of China participated, but their combine…

Also, my previous comment in a thread on China's progress in quantum computing: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15535241

China's advances in AI are impressive as well. A ranking based on publications at top conferences from 2012 to present (2017) has both Beijing and Tsinghua University in the world's top 5.

http://csrankings.org/#/index?ai&vision&mlmining&nlp

(The starting year in the link needs to be changed to 2012.)

Many of the top researchers in US academia are mainland Chinese. I wonder if they will be enticed back home when the Chinese government has managed to reduce the pollution in their major cities down to healthy levels. It appears that the salary for top people there, especially those with experience at major Western institutions, is comparable to those in the US in nominal terms, and the research funding is easier to get.

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#28

Post by ghostbrainalpha »

abhinavkulkarni wrote: post #5
idibidiart wrote: post #2

Thb, most of the interesting work I've seen has come out of Silicon Valley. What breakthroughs have come from China?

Most 'breakthroughs' in AI have come from Canada, not Silicon Valley.

Canada is definitely underappreciated, but you might be overstating it a bit...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jpmorganchase/2017/10/04/chicag...

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#29

Post by ausjke »

exelius wrote: post #13
idibidiart wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a good point but China is a dictatorship and a censoring anti-democracy regime. I can't imagine putting up with that either.

Chinese culture values harmony and stability over individualism and total freedom. The actions of the individual glorify the group; and they view "dictators" as more of a "father-like figurehead". They look at the US and see the problems we have (crime, gun control, health care, etc) and can point to their own society and say "well, we solved all of those so our system is better." Many young Chinese who were educated…

Not only that, the trend of moving towards leftism in USA, i.e. nation-wide anti-intelligence movement(no-child-left-behind,everyone gets a trophy, merit-based effort is cursed on, AA at universities, each students gets free high-school diploma at CA, removing non-ranking from high schools,etc), basically, USA is shifting from 'equal-opportunity to equal-outcome',fast. That is what China tried for a few decades in the past and it did not work for them at all, and the Chinese origins knew it too well, and they just go back when they see what is going on in US these days.

It seems in China excellence and competition are truly appreciated, from family, school all the way to the government, even though some of them have to use VPN to use Google.

China sets a national goal each five years, education first has always be the first priority for the society, back in USA, we're debating how to borrow more debt, how to make sure people can choose no-gender(neither male or female), how to remove ranking from school because competition there hurt our 18-year-old-KID's self-esteem,etc, what a joke, we're doomed.

Re: China’s AI Awakening

#30

Post by sniperjzp »

monkmartinez wrote: post #18
shadowmint wrote: post #14

Extremely relevant quote from the talented Mr Ng: > “When the Chinese government announces a plan like this, it has significant implications for the country and the economy,” says Andrew Ng, a prominent AI expert who previously oversaw AI technology and strategy at China’s biggest online search company, Baidu. “It’s a very strong signal to everyone that things will happen.” ie. There is going to be a tonne of money p…

> ...but anyone sitting here scoffing that China can’t make itself a world leader in a field by simply pouring money and support onto the problem needs a serious history lesson. They have before, and there is every indiction they will again, here with this. What are they currently leading?

Internet related area, like payment service, on demand market, cloud computing, etc.
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