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Why we’re closing Walnut

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Re: Why we’re closing Walnut

#21

Post by gumby »

sidegrid wrote: post #17
rtpg wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've mentioned it yourself: Many of the people in these systems are likely underpaid. Systemic exploitation is the name of the game for a lot of the base infrastructure in our society. I'm for communities helping each other, but in your moving example you think those workers have health insurance? Why do you have to sneak the tips? I bet the bus drivers make a good amount of money though.

Why in the US do you have to rely on the employer to provide health insurance? So weird.

It is absurd; its roots lie in world war II wage controls and then once the interests were entrenched, it stuck. Plus a change in the rules on health care profits in, IIRC, the 1980s.

Re: Why we’re closing Walnut

#22

Post by slackingoff2017 »

kgwgk wrote: post #2

In short: “What we found was that while many people complain about their moving companies, even the highest income consumers would not pay for a better service. Our mistake was conflating desire for a better product with desire to pay more for a better product”

There's several companies dedicated to moving ultra high net worth individuals. It's hard to believe there's no market between that and the cheapest options.

Sounds like their marketing wasn't great or they ran out of runway.

Re: Why we’re closing Walnut

#23

Post by yeukhon »

rtpg wrote: post #15
yeukhon wrote: post #7

I am a Chinese so my family usually have some Chinese contractor do the moving. A couple years ago my family and I bought a home (finally!) and we hired a contractor to come in, after my family and I had packed up everything (since my dad is a jack-of-all-trade kind of a smart man). The contractor paid two Hispanic workers to do most of the heavy-lifting work, but we also helped anyway so we get the move done ASAP. T…

You've mentioned it yourself: Many of the people in these systems are likely underpaid. Systemic exploitation is the name of the game for a lot of the base infrastructure in our society. I'm for communities helping each other, but in your moving example you think those workers have health insurance? Why do you have to sneak the tips? I bet the bus drivers make a good amount of money though.

I didn't have to sneak the tips. I simply walked up to them and paid. The boss wouldn't care. He was tipped too. Of course, we don't show the boss how much we tipped the workers.

When it comes to insurance, yes, that sucks, this is where we need one-payer system, which will make insurance available to everyone. Also, the current Affordable Care Act does not require a company less than 50 people to provide insurance to employees. I also do not believe half of the "professional" local contractors have more than five full-time employees if I were to bet. The ones we did hire (because we couldn't find a qualified one in our Chinese community) run the business with at most 2-3 guys, and are usually family-owned. Subcontractors are hired if the contractor is given a bigger job. You don't need twenty people to renovate a house or fix a sewage pipe. It is not economical for most contractors to have too many full time employees waiting around. The competition is huge.

Also, I think these workers aren't always underpaid. Freelancers can make good money. I don't have any evidences to prove, but if they work 5 days a week, and make $200 per job, they can make $4000 a month. See, the pair we got had two jobs in one morning, so they probably made more than $200 that day along with some tips. I am not defending underpaid, but I am sure these movers make good money in the end. Extremely hard work, but they can make good money. Walnut can't even exist if there were only a hundred jobs a day in NY. I pass by a barn truck lot everyday, and I can say with confident at least 3-4 days a week the lot is mostly empty, so there must be enough demand for a barn truck business to survive. So should the moving industry.

Re: Why we’re closing Walnut

#24

Post by nihonde »

rcarrigan87 wrote: post #12

Very few people understand just how difficult it is to operate in the moving industry. Having worked with a lot of moving companies, here are just a few reasons: -In terms of stress, moving ranks just under death and divorce. Movers joke that half their job is carrying furniture, the other half is therapist. -1 in 5 moves involves some kind of claim. This isn't because movers are careless, it's just the nature of mov…

I moved several times in Japan. Extreme care was taken in each case to correctly estimate the work, itemize the inventory and note existing damage, to secure the home, elevator, and common areas against new damage, and to obtain necessary approvals from building and local officials. The price was quite low — about USD$1,500 to move a four bedroom household to a two bedroom penthouse condo in a city three hours’ drive away, including removal, transport, and installation of four AC units. No tips allowed. There are even movers who specialize in overnight moves where great care is taken to be as silent as possible. After seeing this in action as a customer, I think the level of service elsewhere is quite low and providers have set very low expectations for themselves.

Re: Why we’re closing Walnut

#25

Post by x0x0 »

seibelj wrote: post #8

Amazing write up, thanks for this. Question though - I always thought hiring movers was a higher-end service that targeted richer people? Most people I know rent a truck or U-haul and get their friends to help move for a case of beer...

Well, U-Haul's business is fucking people. There's a long story, but briefly, they promised a truck would be available, it wasn't, we found another, the manager swore he could see it on the lot... and it wasn't actually there. Meanwhile we had hired people to put stuff in the truck and they were sitting at our apartment waiting for us while we were scrambling a third time to actually get a supposedly fully reserved truck from U-Haul. It turned a stressful move into an utter nightmare.

One of the under appreciated benefits of movers is they have their own truck.

Re: Why we’re closing Walnut

#26

Post by ac29 »

sidegrid wrote: post #17
rtpg wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've mentioned it yourself: Many of the people in these systems are likely underpaid. Systemic exploitation is the name of the game for a lot of the base infrastructure in our society. I'm for communities helping each other, but in your moving example you think those workers have health insurance? Why do you have to sneak the tips? I bet the bus drivers make a good amount of money though.

Why in the US do you have to rely on the employer to provide health insurance? So weird.

About half of the US gets government-sponsored healthcare (via Medicaid, Medicare, or one of the state-run programs). The other half don't, and getting it via your employer is generally a win-win (they are providing a benefit that costs them nothing [0], and you get to pay for healthcare via pre-tax income). You certainly don't have to rely on your employer for healthcare, you can buy any legal health insurance you like with your own money.

[0] Yes, it is extremely common for employers to pay for healthcare in full or in part (and the ACA complicates this a little), but there is no reason employers have to pay anything in order for employees to realize the tax benefit.

Re: Why we’re closing Walnut

#27

Post by oconnor663 »

sidegrid wrote: post #17
rtpg wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've mentioned it yourself: Many of the people in these systems are likely underpaid. Systemic exploitation is the name of the game for a lot of the base infrastructure in our society. I'm for communities helping each other, but in your moving example you think those workers have health insurance? Why do you have to sneak the tips? I bet the bus drivers make a good amount of money though.

Why in the US do you have to rely on the employer to provide health insurance? So weird.

Everyone agrees that it's terrible, but it's hard to change anything without screwing over at least one huge industry in some way, plus now the question is totally politicized and everyone assumes the worst about everyone else's intentions.

Re: Why we’re closing Walnut

#28

Post by justboxing »

kgwgk wrote: post #2

In short: “What we found was that while many people complain about their moving companies, even the highest income consumers would not pay for a better service. Our mistake was conflating desire for a better product with desire to pay more for a better product”

Totally. Thanks for the TL;DR.

Re: Why we’re closing Walnut

#29

Post by mlevental »

rcarrigan87 wrote: post #12

Very few people understand just how difficult it is to operate in the moving industry. Having worked with a lot of moving companies, here are just a few reasons: -In terms of stress, moving ranks just under death and divorce. Movers joke that half their job is carrying furniture, the other half is therapist. -1 in 5 moves involves some kind of claim. This isn't because movers are careless, it's just the nature of mov…

15-20% margins is by no means slim.

Re: Why we’re closing Walnut

#30

Post by justboxing »

Perhaps a digression, but how does something like compare with individual movers like "Guy with a Van", "Girl with a Van", "Brothers with Van" type single person operation?

Quite a few of them seem to be in business for many years and seemingly doing well enough to not close shop. What are they doing different to stay profitable?

Source: https://www.google.com/search?q=guy+with+a+van

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