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The advertising industry has been living a lie

businessinsider.com

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Re: The advertising industry has been living a lie

#21
post #2

I always figured we should put advertising on the currency of exchange... seriously, just put what ever picture you want on an individual dollar bill (or a $10/$20/$50/$100) for a price you pay to the Treasury for printing it in volume. Different markets for different denominations and you could actually even target specific areas based on the Atlanta vs Frisco printing locations. The price of ads on a dollar bill co…

The pictures on currency is most definitely advertising, the government just usually has an exclusivity deal.

Ahh yes, but if they sold the advertising space in the market they could make more mon... Oh wait.

Re: The advertising industry has been living a lie

#22
This is not new news. Suprised its getting up votes.

I would say most marketers are well aware of this. We try and measure down funnel. You learn who are the successful networks and who are not. Sure a percentage will be fraud but you should know your channel ROIs and be maximising that.

This article may as well be written that workers only work productly for 5 hours of thw day. Or 25% of food goes to waste.

There is always wadte. A good marketer will reduce this. And thwir claim about marketers not look at domains seems like hogwash to me. I and markwters around me have looked at this in ever company I've been at. Maybe Ive had a rare experience but I doubt this.

Re: The advertising industry has been living a lie

#23

> But that's not really how people consume media. Most people don't spend time on thousands of websites. I found it difficult to read past that bullet point. It's such an obviously stupid mischaracterization of what "the long tail" is that it makes the rest of the arguments suspect.

It gets dumber, yes.

Re: The advertising industry has been living a lie

#24
post #19
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Online marketers are aware of fraud. The common wisdom is to assume ~30% of your budget went into fraud. Common wisdom does not account for that some cash cow keyword/adnet combination you can approach to 90% of traffic coming from bots, or conversions being near nil even without clickfraud being involved, or for ad nets having interest to actually go soft on clickfraud. Whenever I worked in media agencies, I do see…

I'm deeply involved in digital advertising and I don't even understand what you're trying to say, so maybe you could rephrase? At the very least, the "common wisdom" number is suspect (a random lampshade). I've measured bot traffic as high as 98% from quality news sites like the OCRegister.com

I want to say that most online ads people don't get that "you can be losing 30% of your ad spending, but things can be dramatically worse and you will not know it no matter how hard you try"

Re: The advertising industry has been living a lie

#25
I spend $5m a year on programmatic ads, so I think I can answer the author's questions.

> What made you think advertising on a few hundred thousand sites many any sense it the first place?

I'm intending to reach millions of people with my ads. Those millions of people visit a few hundred thousand sites. Why would I only buy ads on a few sites. Big brands buy tv ads and billboards on thousands of shows, whats the difference? Buying on many sites also allows me to reach a very niche audience that otherwise you could never reach (or it would be 10x as expensive).

> How much is being wasted on fraud protection that doesn't do the job?

This is a good question and I don't have an answer. I spend money on fraud/bot protection and can't always verify if it works. But as long as my ads are producing results and have a good ROI or the client is happy, I don't even need to know what the answer is.

> Why does every single publisher or ad tech company boast of working with three or four anti-fraud vendors at once?

Digital marketing as an industry moves super super fast. At least one of those four anti-fraud vendors will pivot in the next year, and another will focus on something niche like viewability. Having multiple vendors is necessary, and there isn't really a downside. The switching costs for me between two vendors is literally unticking one check box, and ticking another.

I'm not familair with the author, but it honestly doesn't seem like he understands advertising. Are you complaining about the use of third party data (but no mention of privacy?), that advertisers are lazy (personal attacks..okay. The whole industry is lazy?), that advertisers buy ads on and support small websites, or are you just feeding on the ever-popular disdain for advertising?

There are no doubt problems in the industry, but if you want to write about it you'll need to make a claim and support it with data. If you think 3rd party data doesn't work, or allowing ads on lots of sites doesn't work then claim that and prove it.

Re: The advertising industry has been living a lie

#26
post #19
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Online marketers are aware of fraud. The common wisdom is to assume ~30% of your budget went into fraud. Common wisdom does not account for that some cash cow keyword/adnet combination you can approach to 90% of traffic coming from bots, or conversions being near nil even without clickfraud being involved, or for ad nets having interest to actually go soft on clickfraud. Whenever I worked in media agencies, I do see…

I'm deeply involved in digital advertising and I don't even understand what you're trying to say, so maybe you could rephrase? At the very least, the "common wisdom" number is suspect (a random lampshade). I've measured bot traffic as high as 98% from quality news sites like the OCRegister.com

mng?

Re: The advertising industry has been living a lie

#27

> But that's not really how people consume media. Most people don't spend time on thousands of websites. I found it difficult to read past that bullet point. It's such an obviously stupid mischaracterization of what "the long tail" is that it makes the rest of the arguments suspect.

I am not familiar with the "long tail" book or the particular internet theory, but I used to work for a company which owned an actual windsurfing website. They only sold advertising to what they called "endemic" advertisers, which means they are of the industry that supports the niche; in this case windsurfing. They dealt directly with the advertisers. The reasoning was that "non-endemic" ads would sour their allegiance with the niche audience they served. I would be interested in some research on this theory.

Re: The advertising industry has been living a lie

#28
In theory, slide.com was going to manage its ad purchases using an arbitrage model, so at least in theory, it would be impossible in the long run for us to tolerate this (it would bankrupt us or we would stop purchasing ads from a fraudulent source). This means our risk would be based, at least somewhat, on the length of the impression periods since this would be the period during which an unknown ad vendor would be tested. However, from the point of view of evaluating the model, or adjusting parameters, the period between purchasing a user through an ad and, on average, recovering the investment, is when we are getting our investment back, so everything after that point in time is profit.

Re: The advertising industry has been living a lie

#29
post #8

What a terribly frustrating article. 1. It doesn't satisfactorily make the case that targeting the audience rather than the topic-related websites doesn't work or make sense. (I'd argue that a deeper problem is that most simple online ads just don't work, for most people. And otherwise, if you're actually susceptible to online advertising, then actually getting served ads tightly targeted to your interests does make…

> It doesn't satisfactorily make the case that targeting the audience rather than the topic-related websites doesn't work or make sense.

I've been saying this needs investigating for a long time. From my understanding of things like triggers, priming, threshold for action, etc -- you're probably doing yourself a disservice having out of context advertising.

When you advertise in context, you get constructive interference between the context and your message, leading to a more powerful effect -- your buyer was ready to hear what you wanted to sell; when you advertise out of context, you get destructive interference between the context and your message, leading to muddled or even negative effects -- advertising roast beef on a porn site is probably bad for all three parties! (No matter how much the person viewing porn likes roast beef.)

"Targeted" rather than topic based advertising ignores basic facets of human psychology (eg, that we're very context based animals) in order to pump up ad stock and sell more volume of a diluted product -- because all of the "targeting" is fundamentally a worse replacement for the signal shown by visiting a topical website. It's about inventory fluffing, not efficiency.

That said, the article didn't do the best job supporting that point.

Re: The advertising industry has been living a lie

#30
post #2

I always figured we should put advertising on the currency of exchange... seriously, just put what ever picture you want on an individual dollar bill (or a $10/$20/$50/$100) for a price you pay to the Treasury for printing it in volume. Different markets for different denominations and you could actually even target specific areas based on the Atlanta vs Frisco printing locations. The price of ads on a dollar bill co…

I always figured we should put advertising on the currency of exchange... seriously

You're not being serious.

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