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Bootstrap 4 Beta 2

blog.getbootstrap.com

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Re: Bootstrap 4 Beta 2

#21

Post by andygcook »

th0br0 wrote: post #17
andygcook wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! And good point on the FAQs + TOS. Will add them to the to-do list. We're beta testing the app right now with friends & family and have made our first few deliveries already. The response has been great so far from people's grandparents. They love getting the prints in the mail with the captions to tell the story of the photo on them. We're going to be exploring international shipping soon. What country does t…

Germany. Something like this also needs the ability to delay shipments - old people are more likely to be admitted to hospitals or similar.

That's a good point too and something we hadn't considered. Would it work if the package was just delivered in the mail as usual and they could open it when they got home as something to look forward to?

Re: Bootstrap 4 Beta 2

#22

Post by baybal2 »

myf01d wrote: post #4

I know I am going to be downvoted so hard, but really it's very easy to build you own css these days, css frameworks look an easy solution for beginning your project but they become a burden gradually as your project grows

I support you, what you say is true.

Re: Bootstrap 4 Beta 2

#23

Post by matt4077 »

pcwalton wrote: post #13
myf01d wrote: post #4

I know I am going to be downvoted so hard, but really it's very easy to build you own css these days, css frameworks look an easy solution for beginning your project but they become a burden gradually as your project grows

For the projects Bootstrap was designed for, the choice isn't between Bootstrap and a professionally designed custom theme; the choice is between Bootstrap and a white background with all text in Times New Roman 16 pt.

What changed are browsers. The original advantage of bootstrap et al where grids and standardisation. These initial use cases have been subsumed by browsers, and bootstrap offers little more than a useless level of redirection.

Then, bootstrap added what I want to call widgets: small functional units that can easily be reused. Here, as well, browsers have changed dramatically. At the time bootstrap came out, these widgets required browser-specific, inscrutable hacks like negative margins, spacer pixels, and other crimes against htmlanity. Relative to 10 years ago, all of today's browser engines are identical, and CSS has added all these typical use cases.

What remains is more or less a skin changing html's defaults to something that may be prettier, or just not weighed down by the stigma of being the default.

Re: Bootstrap 4 Beta 2

#24

Post by gshulegaard »

headcanon wrote: post #15
fbonetti wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: why? Why would you roll your own buttons, headers, footers, modals, panels, grid system, and alerts, which all respond responsively, when you could just take a framework off the shelf and start being productive immediately?

It depends on what you're doing. Kitchen-sink frameworks like Bootstrap are great for building tools that don't require a lot of customization of the UI, generally things like internal tools. But for user-facing stuff, designers and PMs want to tweak everything about the interface, and by the time you're done, you've rewritten most of the CSS and you actually spent more effort doing so than had you just written the C…

Just wanted to point out that when Bootstrap first hit the scene this wasn't true:

> to add to that, the biggest problem that bootstrap solves IMO is a standard grid system, of which there are now many, more composable grid systems to choose from. Grid systems are so basic that its probably fine to pull one from the shelf, but with flexbox its really not that hard to write your own anyway.

Bootstrap was sort of a pioneer in the generalized responsive framework space. I recall Zurb Foundation close behind and Skeleton a short time after that...although my time line might be a bit screwed up.

Now with flex box it is certainly easier to roll your own...and that reduces the value (somewhat) of using a framework like Bootstrap or Foundation or (insert other responsive framework here), but it doesn't make it 0 (IMO).

Re: Bootstrap 4 Beta 2

#25

Post by brianwawok »

PunchTornado wrote: post #20
pcwalton wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the projects Bootstrap was designed for, the choice isn't between Bootstrap and a professionally designed custom theme; the choice is between Bootstrap and a white background with all text in Times New Roman 16 pt.

I wonder why people don't get this. It's not like you're doing a Fortune 500 company's website with Bootstrap.

I bet we can find 50 uses of bootstrap in the f500.

Re: Bootstrap 4 Beta 2

#26

Post by kbenson »

myf01d wrote: post #4

I know I am going to be downvoted so hard, but really it's very easy to build you own css these days, css frameworks look an easy solution for beginning your project but they become a burden gradually as your project grows

Really it's very easy to build your own web application framework these days, existing web application frameworks look an easy solution for beginning your project but they become a burden gradually as your project grows.

Really it's very easy to build your own database software these days, database servers look an easy solution for beginning your project but they become a burden gradually as your project grows.

Really it's very easy to build your own car these days, pre-made cars look an easy solution for beginning your project but they become a burden gradually as your project grows.

...

All of these cases may be true if you are the 0.01% that wants to do it to learn or have some very special business need that calls for it. For the other 99.99% of the time, it just keeps you from focusing on the stuff you actually need or want to accomplish.

Re: Bootstrap 4 Beta 2

#27

Post by LoSboccacc »

fbonetti wrote: post #11
myf01d wrote: post #4

I know I am going to be downvoted so hard, but really it's very easy to build you own css these days, css frameworks look an easy solution for beginning your project but they become a burden gradually as your project grows

Honest question: why? Why would you roll your own buttons, headers, footers, modals, panels, grid system, and alerts, which all respond responsively, when you could just take a framework off the shelf and start being productive immediately?

I use bootstrap as default reset without the grid. All the modern standard widget premade and none of the grid spacing coercion is a good compromise to my need.

Re: Bootstrap 4 Beta 2

#28

Post by LoSboccacc »

gshulegaard wrote: post #24
headcanon wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on what you're doing. Kitchen-sink frameworks like Bootstrap are great for building tools that don't require a lot of customization of the UI, generally things like internal tools. But for user-facing stuff, designers and PMs want to tweak everything about the interface, and by the time you're done, you've rewritten most of the CSS and you actually spent more effort doing so than had you just written the C…

Just wanted to point out that when Bootstrap first hit the scene this wasn't true: > to add to that, the biggest problem that bootstrap solves IMO is a standard grid system, of which there are now many, more composable grid systems to choose from. Grid systems are so basic that its probably fine to pull one from the shelf, but with flexbox its really not that hard to write your own anyway. Bootstrap was sort of a pio…

Not really since most browser have their opinion on how to actually flex the box in corner cases (like: an image that has height 100% and not a defined width will cause all kind of fun in a row flexy)

Re: Bootstrap 4 Beta 2

#29

Post by Chyzwar »

myf01d wrote: post #4

I know I am going to be downvoted so hard, but really it's very easy to build you own css these days, css frameworks look an easy solution for beginning your project but they become a burden gradually as your project grows

It is difficult. Look how much effort was put into Bootstrap3. Good UI framework brings consistency and good practices.

Browsers are not so consistent as people think. CSS is difficult to get right. UI/UX is hard if you are not a designer. Interactions between DOM, CSS, and JS are hard to test.

Re: Bootstrap 4 Beta 2

#30

Post by dannytatom »

andygcook wrote: post #8

I've been using the Bootstrap 4 beta for a couple weeks building a side project ( https://nanagram.co ) and I must say, it's been great to use. The built in utilities for responsive views and spacing are especially useful. Made optimizing the homepage for multiple screen sizes super fast and not painful at all. The Beta 1 had pretty good documentation and seemed pretty mature as well. Looking forward to upgrading to…

You have a f` floating on your landing page, under the photo next to "Never miss a photo"
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